San Diego County jumped into California’s sprawling ghost gun fight this week, suing a 3-D printing filament manufacturer it says hocks material for homespun firearms in violation of state law.

Working with the Giffords Law Center, the county counsel sued manufacturer Polymaker, alleging the company made a “strategic business choice” to market and sell 3-D printer filament to Californians for the express purpose of building illegal weapons. The polymer filament is sold in spools that feed into 3-D printers, allowing the devices to form designs created by their owners.

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[–] 118 points 4 weeks ago* (4 children)

hold on let me go sue home depot for selling black iron pipe and nails because someone made a pipe bomb. Nowhere has poly-maker ever advertised or suggested their speciality filaments could make firearms.

Someone's looking for a payout settlement, fuck California

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  • [–] 36 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    you could literally make a shotgun with that too. Saw a YouTube video. Two pipes, one fit in the other, small one was the right size to hold a shell, and a nail at the end of the closed pipe triggered it if you used your hands to hit it.

    Super effective and easy one shot shotgun. there's no real way to regulate guns IMO. They're not complicated devices.

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  • [–] 71 points 4 weeks ago

    That is completely bizarre.

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  • [–] 59 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    Sue the steel mills for guns too while you're at it.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    Hol up, those guns are made by corporations. What are you thinking?

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  • [–] 18 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    Anyone with machining knowledge can turn a block of metal into a working gun part

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    As an old toolmaker, that's not as true as you think. It requires a lot of other knowledge besides running a lathe or mill. I speak from experience, having had to learn how to make repair parts for antique and collectable firearms at times.

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  • [–] 97 points 4 weeks ago

    They used fear of guns to attack Right to Repair and small manufacturing. It was never about guns.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 weeks ago

    Maybe they should sue steel manufacturers too since that’s the main material used for most fire arms.

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  • This seems awfully familiar to the gun crackdowns after the Black Panthers started using them for self defense.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    Is this filament specifically designed for guns?

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  • [–] 32 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    No, polymaker just have a big range of engineering friendly filament, just as they have pretty artsy ones, and low cost workhorse filament for makers

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Sounds like the lawsuit is on thin ice, then.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 weeks ago

    They apparently sponsored a maker who prints guns, which is the justification.

    Still stupid for a mountain of reasons, not least of which is that 3D printing guns is perfectly legal in many places.

    Saudi Arabia can't go after the companies that sell oak barrels to Jack Daniels because alcohol is illegal there.

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  • [–] [S] 65 points 4 weeks ago* (6 children)

    This is getting a bit fucking ridiculous. They're suing filament manufacturers now.

    A video I posted a few months ago about this bullshit: https://youtu.be/E1B2cWEaWDw

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  • [+] -29 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    Polymaker is a Chinese supplier, selling to California residents, while also running ad campaigns through ghost gun content creators aimed at California residents, defining themselves explicitly as a ghost gun ingredient.

    If they didn't want to get caught up in this, they shouldn't have gotten involved in the illicit arms business. But they wanted to be known as the plastic supplier that is cool with you making ghost guns, and that isn't going to fly in California.

    Plastic suppliers that don't advertise themselves explicitly as being part of the ghost gun supply chain will be fine.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    So polymaker actually choose the individual channels their ads (not about ghost guns) were put on...or was that an algorithm (AdSense)?

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  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago

    I don't remember seeing them do any specific sponsored content, though they may and probably have, but that have a very open affiliate program that every 3d printer youtuber I've seen is in. They also give out codes for streaming channels to give away filament.

    All this I'm saying is I don't think they're "choosing" these channels but I doubt they care what the content in on any channel.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 weeks ago

    huh. who knew the answer to gun violence in the US was to regulate 3D printers!

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  • [–] 19 points 4 weeks ago

    For fucks sake.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

    i hope.polymaker fights this. this law ia wrong and should be challenged in court

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  • [–] 18 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    This will get tossed. But here's why it's actually happening:

    Gatalog and Polymaker both market through a network of influencers “specializing in 3D printed ghost gun content, as well as companies and individuals that illegally distribute [digital firearm manufacturing codes],” according to the suits.

    Both also directly target state residents: Gatalog advertises a “California Compliant Glock 19-based Carbine kit,” while Polymakers’ website features Proposition 65 warnings and state-specific privacy opt-out features.

    I mean yea, advertise your filament with YouTubers making guns, and you put yourself in the...oof.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Yeah people too easy to judge instead of reading the actual article. Despite the article being click baity, seems a pretty reasonable reason to sue polymaker. They should do little bit of research on who they choose to sponsor.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Next they'll be looking at the violent motherfucker that invented 3d printing. Plus fishing supply companies that produce a different kind of, but still a, filament. /s

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  • [–] 16 points 4 weeks ago* (5 children)

    The specifics revolve around a 3d-printed-gun advocate named Sean Aranda, whose youtube channel focuses on the subject. According to him, when youtube demonetized the channel in 2023 Polymaker approached him with a sponsorship offer. A couple months later Polymaker announced Aranda was a new member of its marketing team.

    So regardless of where you stand on the Calif anti-3d-gun law, this isn't a simple case of going after egg farmers because of illegal omelets.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    You've got some point there, but doesn't demonstrate the uselessness of the law? Unless of course they are going after every producer of technical filaments, which is like going after anyone with a lathe or a CNC machine.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago* (3 children)

    No I think this is an example of the opposite - it's not an action against the filament industry or the 3d printing community in general, it's against an individual company for allegedly marketing filament specifically to print guns, not just because filament could or might be used to print guns. Whether the law itself is right or wrong is a different issue.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Which makes the law useless. People with nefarious plans don't need ads. There really are just two possibilities, either it is repressive and overreaching or it is useless.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Ok whatever. I won't try to argue over the validity of your definition of "useless" since you clearly think it's absolute.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago*

    It is not absolute, you are free to argue in which way it is useful, in practical terms. Have you done so?

    Do you think any follower of mentioned channel has difficulties finding functional FDM filaments without ads on the channel? If not, whats the point of the law's application in this example?

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    You can make a crude firearm/hand held pipe bomb with a pipe and lighter. A lot less effort than 3d printing one.

    Are they going to go after builders merchants now?

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  • [–] 15 points 4 weeks ago

    They're trying to make this a case over marketing and intent rather than materials.

    The actual types of filament they're concerned with are carbon fiber nylon (sold by many brands) and "PLA Pro" which is just a bit better regular PLA.

    These are sold by tons of brands all across the internet.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 weeks ago
    [–] 25 points 4 weeks ago

    Jfc these people are out of their minds

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago

    So it seems the legal question is "was polymaker advertising their filament specifically for printing working firearms?"

    Them having a couple military style colors for printing toy guns seems pretty far from a specific gun use filament. I was expecting a specific blend of herbs and spices specifically for withstanding the rigors of shooting real ammo or something, not a fucking color that is "military".

    Also, good luck trying to probe that they used specific advertising channels to market directly to the ghost gun groups. Flimsy reasoning at best.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Oh my God! America could end up having a real problem with gun violence...

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  • [–] 25 points 4 weeks ago* (8 children)

    under the second amendment, and under the ATF's ruling, citizens are allowed to manufacture their own firearms. this is getting struck down..... if it were in Texas and not the gun-stealing California. I hope to the gods it gets struck down, because this would be a travesty for all my brothers, sisters and non binary pals in California... my heart goes out to y'all.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    States are allowed to add some restrictions to gun laws. So the new ATF rules likely won't be decisive in this case.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 weeks ago

    If this goes up to the federal court level, it's almost certainly getting struck down. It's a pretty clear infringement upon the 2nd amendment.

    It's a miracle that the CA gun laws haven't been struck down at the federal level yet.... By the gods, I hope they do. The situation in CA is utterly miserable for y'all.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    2A is already abused to hell, but I see no way to make an argument to say it protects manufacturing a firearm. It, at best, protects possession. There are other reasons this is illegal, but please read the second amendment before you say dumb shit about it.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (4 children)

    This is a direct quote from the ATF Director, Rob Cekada:

    https://youtu.be/1h_wRotsHTw?t=390

    The interview starts at 390 seconds.

    the voice-to-text transcription wasn't entirely accurate, but it should be good enough to get the point across.

    Yeah, I think uh again, as long as folks are in compliance with their state laws, they're in good shape. Uh the only thing that people need to remember uh even even prior to uh this uh guidance coming out uh as an American citizen if you weren't prohibited and there was no state laws uh that prevented you from doing so [music] you were allowed to build your own firearm

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    That transcript says that, if it isn't illegal to build a firearm, then it's legal to build a firearm. No shit. Obviously. It says nothing about 2A protections.

    Also, he is not a lawyer. Do you think everything the director of ICE says is supported by the law?

    Again, read the second amendment. Please. It's very short.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

    ....Have you ever thought critically about what "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." actually means..?

    It's not a plaintext right to manufacture firearms, yes. It is, however, an --implied-- right. In order to keep and bear arms, citizens must also obviously have the right to -make- their own arms.

    In fact, there have already been court cases on this very issue in other states. Defense Distributed v. Blanche, comes to mind, though there may have been others.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Dude, yes, I have. Have you?

    How did most nations at the time defend themselves? It wasn't standing armies. Only the richest nations could afford those, and the US was not one of them. It was expected that militias would be risen when a threat appeared.

    Ok, now how did those militias operate? Did they store weapons in their homes? Did they manufacture them? No, to both of these. Weapons were kept in armories, and the militias drilled with them. They were well regulated, not just random people with guns calling themselves a militia. They were actual organizations trained and prepared for an attack, and their weapons and ammunition were organized in armories, where you had to go to muster.

    Ok, now how does any of this imply the right to manufacture? You have a right to obtain at best, though ideally, in those early days, your militia organization would be obtaining them, not you as an individual.

    Please, critically read it and think about it for yourself. What does the text actually say, and what were the customs of the time?

    I'm all for people having the rights to weapons. Hell, I'd even agree the right to manufacture is held, to a limited extent, by the people. However, the 2nd Amendment does not provide this. The 9th does. I'm tired of the 2nd being used by people to try to cover everything. It's made weaker by this. The 9th does cover everything though.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 weeks ago

    Pfffffff hahahaha, are you also going to go after weed walker too?

    The USA is a joke

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  • [–] 11 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    Polymaker did not respond to requests for comment.

    Statements like these always seem deceiving to me. Like, how much time did you give them? Some of these people race to get their story out too quickly, without giving a reasonable amount of time for a response.

    What if they respond later? I guess they could update the article, but that's still after people have already read it and formed their opinions based on the original contents.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    This is very normal, and not meant to be deceiving. If the group who didn't respond to the request does respond after the article was published, that will be removed and a statement that reads something like "Polymaker (insert title or department) responded after initial publishing with this statement" and that statement will follow after. From a journalistic integrity standpoint it shows that they wanted to get both sides of a story, especially if one side was interviewed or quoted. The alternative of not stating that comment was requested is we read the article and wonder if Polymaker ever got a chance to speak their side.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    The alternative of not stating that comment was requested is we read the article and wonder if Polymaker ever got a chance to speak their side.

    But that's kinda my point: I still don't know if they had a chance to speak their side before the article was published, nor do I know if they will.

    It's really just a nitpick on my part. If they plan to publish a follow-up article about the response, then it would seem a bit more honest to just add one word: "yet"

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    I have seen sometimes where the author of the article will include the amount of time given for a response to give context. I like that quite a bit. On the other hand, some companies make it exceedingly difficult to contact them or throw you into a maze of powerless and uninformed underlings.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 weeks ago (11 children)

    I'm not a gun guy but from my understanding of ghost guns you pretty much buy the whole gun online in parts, and you just 3d print a handle.

    So I don't understand why people are so afraid of 3d printing when it really has minimal to do with the final product. From what I can tell you can't just 3d print a gun from start to finish like its a llm. You still have to buy the actual gun parts from the manufacturer. To me this sounds completely unrelated and like a issue with regulating gun parts.

    You can carve a handle out of soap, wood, or buy a solid chunk of plastic and its the same result.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    The problem is that, legally speaking, the lower receiver is the gun. So you can buy all the other parts online with no background check etc.

    A person with a machine shop and knowledge on how to use it could also do this

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    The problem is that, legally speaking, the lower receiver is the gun. So you can buy all the other parts online with no background check etc.

    Makes you wonder if there's a more sensible way to classify things legally... Probably not.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    My biggest problem with all these attacks on 3d printing is that what you are talking about is completely legal as far as I am aware. There are tons of places online that sell partial receiver blanks that require the buyer to do the last few bits of machining and turn a "block of metal" into a "gun", legally speaking. It is currently completely legal for an individual in the US to build a gun without telling anyone about it for personal use so long as the final result does not run afoul of ant NFA rules (like automatic fire, length of shotgun, caliber size, etc.). They don't start doing anything illegal until they sell them, or even give them away (again, assuming they meet all of the NFA rules - obviously someone making themselves a gun has a high risk of running foul of the myriad of rules here, but the end result has to be evaluated to determine if they broke the law or not).

    So all of these are just using gun terror as an attack vector against 3d printing in general. Just like the "think of the children" campaigns all over the world that are really just about stripping us of privacy and security. The guns aren't the real problem and neither are the kids. A free, private, and secure populace is the problem.

    I am not advocating that people build their own guns. I am not a lawyer. I advise anyone go learn your local laws and discuss with actual legal counsel before choosing to attempt anything that could be against federal firearm law. kthx

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago*

    really has minimal to do with the final product. From what I can tell you can't just 3d print a gun from start to finish

    I'm pretty sure you can. It might only work once though.

    Basic guns aren't really all that complex.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    You can print all sorts of gun parts though, like suppressors and modifications to allow a gun to shoot faster than normal.

    With that being said, trying to ban 3d printing or sue filament manufacturers is monumentally stupid.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago* (3 children)

    I don't know how impactful those are, and I think a person with access to a decent metal shop could pose more danger.

    What is it just the access that's scary then? As a guy that doesn't know guns, you often hear things like a potato or a water bottle can be made into a makeshift surpressor or turning a single fire into a sensative rapid fire trigger is trival. So I'm just not understanding why 3d printers are almost entirely linked to making guns in everyone's minds. When I first got a elgoo that was the first thing people would jokingly ask if I was going to make one.

    Like maybe I can understand the argument that access is so low anyone can do it, but even then you can't just download a gun. The person who is doing this already bought gun parts and knows how to assemble them. This is not going to stop that kind of person from building a gun in any form. The gun is still the metal parts you buy online. A silencer, a trigger mod, whatever is useless until you handle ghost guns.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 weeks ago

    Yeah going after printing and/or filament is dumb. I'm I guess what some would call a "gun guy". 3D printing in this space is less practical and more just for fun.

    You can use a metal coat hanger to full auto an AR. A printed suppressor is going to be so weak it'll probably break on first use. Oil filters work tho. If you want to illegal things the better way to do most often doesnt involve printing.

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  • [–] 37 points 4 weeks ago (10 children)

    Americans can order guns to their doors, but the 3d printers are the issues you choose to tackle...

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  • [–] 29 points 4 weeks ago (9 children)

    No, they can't. Guns can only be legally shipped to a federally licensed gun dealer. The dealer cannot transfer it to the buyer without the mandated background check.

    The gun laws are already fucked up enough. You don't have to make shit up.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Can order black powder revolvers to your door, and can buy replacement parts that allow them to fire cowboy cartridges, which are just low FPS lead rounds, like 800fps. They'll kill a fella, but don't have quite the same force as modern rounds. They also burn a lower grade powder and are a bit more smokey.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago

    Actually, those conversion cylinders are perfectly happy with modern smokeless powders suitable for their caliber. Though it's more about velocities than pressure. I can load any smokeless .45 Colt for my cylinder that is listed for the standard pressures, (about 11,000psi). But it is highly recommended to keep your velocities no more than 850fps, (the original velocity for the Colt SAA). Frame stretching is the issue. Those cap and ball revolvers are made from a bit softer metal than modern revolvers. Remington's are stronger than the open top Colts.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    You can have long guns purchased through the Civilian Marksmanship Program shipped directly to your door. Those are a drop in the bucket compared to most firearm purchases in the US, though.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    CMP can't do that in states like California or any of the other states with decent gun laws.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I’ve only been threatened with a gun by the government and I bet that is the case for the vast majority of us.

    But you want them to regulate it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago*

    Reading comprehension of a dog.

    Talking about regulation (and support for common sense gun laws that would also limit cops) ≠ support for all regulation. You and the people who upvoted you need to retake whatever class you learned English through.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago

    Then lil' Petey Hegseth ran out of guns and all this shit was suddenly legal. /s

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago

    maybe we should be printing these

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  • [–] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    If things goes the way I think it will, California will need more guns to fight off the Trump Regime during the opening years of the 2nd American Civil War.

    I hope this lawsuit fails.

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