Which is why child welfare is so important

This discussion is hard and society is still not ready for it.

There are absolutely a lot of people that should not be bringing children into this world.

If as a society we're going to say "it's a fundamental right to breed", then we need to fucking fix society so that every child brought into this world is guaranteed the opportunity for success. That means universal public healthcare, universal public education through college, universal access to nutrition...just to start.

Our current system is nothing like that. Once a kid is born today, if their parents suck then they're just fucked, and maybe that kid should have tried being born to better parents.

Civilised countries have solved this problem. If you're in a position to think this way then your government is actively oppressing the poor.

Well the main reason you shouldn't have kids is because this world is going down to shit at an accelerating pace.

Between climate collapse, life extinction, resources exhaustion and AI dystopia, where do you see your kids in 20, 30, 40 years? Dead from starvation? Enslaved by oligarchs? Can you see a good life fort them in the horizon?

My kid is a teenager and I already feel like she's living the best of their life already. From their adult life, I can only see it go down.

There's a reason why wild animals frequently don't reproduce in captivity.

Humans don't tend to do it very well either.

Thinking about childrens' futures breaks my heart

This is far too much "breeding is a privilege for the rich" for my tastes. Touch too much Eugenics.

"Just don't have kids" is a horrible solution.

"fix the system so people can make their own choices about having kids" is the actual solution.

Im never having kids because I cant afford them, sure, but that doesn't mean you ought to have to pay to live, if the world were different I'd have children in a heartbeat

the op argument is a pathway to eugenics, child removal, and punishing people for living

also the doctor who did my vasectomy literally said if you have kids, you tend to figure it out as he completed the procedure lol

States: Horrible news! People are not having kids anymore!!!!

Also states: We're cutting the daycare bonus and won't address the house prices or wages so both of you have to work full-time just so you can pay rent/mortgage.

The issue here is that in a proper society, child care is a societal burden and not just a personal one. Meaning that in a proper society, both the rich and the poor can raise children properly and not let the child suffer.

Imagine a society where only the rich reproduce... That is arguably just as fucked up just in a different way.

Ever notice these conversations always center around the poor. Articles and comments never scold the rich for not providing loving or mentally and emotionally healthy environments for their children. They can produce little affluent sociopaths all day every day and it's cool because they have money. As long as they aren't actively and visibly abusive to their children they'll never lose custody (and sometimes not even then). But the poor regularly have their kids taken for not having enough resources while we tisk tisk them for the crime of not being born privileged.

Well poor people should NOT have kids, because kids are not a good that you have to suit your needs.

Growing up poor stunts you severely. Make a good nest egg first.

So the most selfish thing that people can do... is only available to the impoverished?

The most selfish thing that the system can do is let children live in poverty.

Fuck this billionaire bootlicking bullshit.

PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn't have kids,

You may not think that's the point, but that is the ultimate effect of your words.

No I understand it. Thinking further than yourself and thinking that government assistance and family will help you out. Diapers and formula are expensive. School, school supplies. The clothes they need as they grow, the food they're gonna need, the potential therapies that may be needed. Doctors appointments that sometimes insurance doesn't cover. Then you might have a child born with an incurable disease that you might give your whole financial being trying to treat.

The amount of emotional availability that's needed, the patience and god forbid they die!!!! Plus it's a lifetime thing it never ends they don't turn 21 and leave you forever it's a forever thing. If you're still in contact with your parents, how many people are in their mid 30's who are still on good terms with their parents? Who do you still call or go to when all goes to shit?

Like fuck man!!!!

No I will not attempt to provide a life to something. Hell I can hardly afford myself. If I could provide financial reliability and if I wasn't in the living situation I'm in now, maybe but even still, I don't have that emotional expenditure and I know I'm not meant to raise a human and I'm okay with that.

I like being able to do whatever I want whenever I want, spending money on myself and I am a very detached person sometimes..... I wouldn't ever want to create an offspring only to know the life I would be able to provide isn't of sufficient quality.

"Poor people should go extinct"

I don't think poor people should have kids because I don't think anyone should have kids because all humans should just agree that this shit sucks, and then throw a massive global rager until the world runs out of drugs and booze and then we should blow up the planet and be done with it.

I think community is missing. You can provide material things and the child still be neglected.

Grew up poor. Still happy to be born. Parents grew up in even worse conditions in their old country during and after a war. Pretty sure they're okay with having been born.

You can choose to not have kids for whatever reason. You don't need to justify it or rationalize it.

This was a better point (in the US) before Roe v Wade got overturned honestly