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[–] 223 points 2 months ago (23 children)

10 years ago OP would've been labeled a schizo, now we just accept there's microphones in everything

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  • [–] 56 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    i hate living in a cyberpunk dystopia

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    The least they could do is give us the damn body augmentations already. We got all the shitty parts and none of the cool tech.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 months ago* (9 children)

    You know the irony of this is? My ex-fiances father was labeled as schizophrenic. I mean he was by textbook definition. One day, I would take her to visit him, he says that computers are tracking you. Now, I brushed it off at the time, probably a conspiracy theory right? but I did think about it.

    L3 was tracking internet data already, at least, in the early 2000's. A little game of what's connecting to my computer showed me that, but I didn't know what it was at the time. Well now I know, g-sec company has been tracking us from routers for over twenty years; same company after the merger that makes EOTECHs. So the puzzle pieces came together.

    I kind of wondered if he really was schizophrenic or medicated to be so? As an a example, tramadol made me have auditory hallucinations that I've never experience on acid or mushrooms (college lol).

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    If this guy is still alive, I bet he'd really appreciate you telling him he was right. It can be exhausting trying to get people to see the issues in society and having everyone just constantly write you off as crazy. Since you're here posting this instead of reddit, you've probably had that experience yourself since then.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I'm not sure honestly it's been over a decade. Yeah, reddit got weird, bots and people paid to down vote popular opinions. It's like you get a bunch of down votes and nobody has a reply. A lot of it has to do with text being misunderstood. You can write a text and someone will think you mean something else. Also it's more fun here, it's like stepping back in time when people actually wrote to each other on a forum. And yeah, anything that touches change or addresses an actual issue, you're a radical.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I do wonder if it is that as a society at least in these generations.. We lost cause we never did a really good effort into teaching media literacy to everyone, many arguments i hear i think it boils down to lack of media literacy.

    We made the effort to make almost everyone be able to read but the effort to find miss direction, biases and manipulation not so much

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  • I disagree with the idea that the younger generations (gen y+later) lack media literacy. I'd argue the opposite, actually. The older generations rarely question anything and much of what they were fed was/is clear propaganda for their respective governments. The younger generations spend most of our time online in spaces like this talking to each other about what we believe or consuming media that is divergent from the status quo.

    The comment we're both replying to is a good example of this, I believe. They mention that wanting to change things is often deemed "radical". I'm an anarcho-communist, not only would the things I believe be classified as radical, I identify with that label myself. And yet there are clearly many more people now who do not identify as radical who seem to share my beliefs. Don't know what generations y'all belong to, but I'm willing to bet you're not boomers and Xers seem to be more nihilistic than anything.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    I think that's a major point.

    Critical thinking is demoralized.

    I mean I showed court dockets about Tent Peg Rump to people supporting him---still. And it's been interesting to see the stubbornness to still show support. It's like you got rearended over the last year and like the dog meme in the fire, this is fine. Some people just don't want to admit defeat. At least some people are waking up. Also the other thing is, you can't show your opinion often. It's like we've reached China's level of censorship without even knowing.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The problem is not that is stubbornness, (maybe on high level it is) but is more like questioning became something of an insult rather than of dialogue. I get it we all want to believe we know what we know so challenging that is an insult

    And the thing is that finding truth is really hard compared to making shit up, and it just continues to grow apart with AI powered stuff. It is something i worry a lot for the future and really don’t think i have a proper idea on how it can be solved

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Yeah that's part of it. I've seen too many smart and successful people making up excuses. I don't even know why anymore. Look at your wallet or your books. Winning? Winning what? At least I managed to convince some people to look at the bigger picture.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I will still argue phones listen to us. Don't care what you say, it happens. Act accordingly

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    PRISM leak was 13 years ago if you want to feel old yet, but then that was just a revelation about how prevelant mass surveillance is, it was Vault 7 in 2017 that detailed how built-in microphones in Smart TVs are used for spying, so that part would indeed be less than 10 years ago

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  • [–] 139 points 2 months ago (20 children)

    This should be a web site or YT channel. How to remove such bits without bricking the item.

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  • [–] 89 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    To be fair, OP didn’t claim that the remote wasn’t bricked…

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  • [–] [S] 81 points 2 months ago* (12 children)

    It works! I was fully prepared for it to not work and explain to my wife why we need to order a new one, but no issue at all lmao

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (11 children)

    So if the remote still works then wouldn't that mean there is still a microphone? Or have they gone back to line of sight infrared? Or am I just thinking of the really really old remote tech?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    ...when have remote signals ever used microphones?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Not fully related, but early TV remotes used sound rather than IR. The buttons made a distinctive "click" noise, from a mechanical mechanism. The different clicks were detected in the TV and used as input.

    Plus side, no batteries to deal with.

    Down side, about as (un)reliable as you would expect.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    That's wild. How did the TVs identify the distinctive sound? That seems like it would be a pretty interesting engineering trick.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I believe it was old school analogue electronics, but I'm speculating there.

    I just looked it up, it was ultrasonic signals. The main one was the Zenith Space Command.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Cool, thanks! No problem. I understand it was analog electronics and using an ultrasonic signal makes sense, but what I wondered about was how did the receiving end (the TV) differentiate between the signals for the different buttons and then decide to execute different procedures based on that. Still pretty interesting in any case.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Speculating, but I would guess they applied a band pass filter to it. You can then either take a simple threshold value, or look for a rapid change and trigger off that. 4 buttons means 4 sets of filters, each tuned to a different frequency.

    That said, the analogue electronics engineers of yesteryear were insanely competent and making analogue circuits do interesting things to save money or space.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Ah, yes, that makes sense, thanks! Totally agreed on those old school engineers being insanely competent and creative.

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  • [–] [S] 29 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Looking up which part to nuke took an hour, but anything to calm down my paranoid ass haha

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Could you share your knowledge here? I clicked this thread expecting to find instructions to help us follow your advice.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 months ago

    While it’s not always the case, try to look for a 2x4 silver rectangle with a hole in it like the one on my finger. The casing is to isolate it from the nearby radio waves and the hole to let sound through.

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  • [–] 50 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    While you're at it, disconnect your "smart TV" from the internet!

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    This is the far easier approach, but if you live somewhere densely populated (like an apartment building) keep in mind it’s been rumored that smart TVs can make a mesh network to upload data without a connection. Though to my knowledge this has never been definitively shown to be true

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    What year do you think we'll see the first repo for a Raspberry Pi spoofer?

    Something that can act as a "peer" and intercept and blackhole the traffic.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Has to be proven that it occurs first I suppose. But it would also be a difficult thing to workaround. Like in your example the only thing stopping them is a firmware update that dictates the tv connect to as many other clients as possible and blacklist clients that can’t receive a challenge code or success packet or something

    Of course I’m sure if that happened people much smarter than me would spoof all that too, make a spoofer that creates dozens of pseudo devices, break challenges and such, etc. cat and mouse game. Luckily these things are usually super lazily implemented by the ad scum but frustratingly that’s bc dedicating resources to this is not worth it usually (eg many people, a sizable and increasing percentage of users, may simply not connect their tv to the internet but once a raspberry pi or docker container or whatever is involved you’re in strictly nerd territory)

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  • [–] 86 points 2 months ago (50 children)

    FYI: Any speaker can and will be used as a microphone.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago* (37 children)

    We're really fucked aren't we.

    So just remove my sim card and unplug my firewall? Got it.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 months ago (35 children)

    You would be surprised about the capabilities we had in 1970-80s for spying, with way way less technology than what we have today. At this point I think privacy is just a myth, we can literally use light to listen on people by having it bounce off of their windows and interpreting it back as sound. As a side note, rich people do use windows with a vibrating feature exactly to block this old method. There's literally very little you can do if you are targeted by the government. (Except leaving the country, if possible)

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    At this point I think privacy is just a myth.

    This is the cop in your head to kill. State surveillance capabilities are limited. While in theory it's difficult to block targetted surveillance the key is to avoid being targetted by blending in.

    James Micken's model of mosad and not mossad threats apply. If a state turns its gaze on you, you will lose. However passive dragnet methods to try and decide who to turn the eye of Sauron on can be hidden from.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone

    First to use, as far as I remember, were the Soviets in Cuba, gathering intelligence from US diplomats.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    If you aim a laser on a window it can detect the vibrations of sound hitting it. Pretty much the same as placing your ear up against it, except that a laser can do it from far, far away. You can counter this by installing devices on the windows that actively vibrate them, drowning out the sound.

    What's interesting with this technique is the sideways applications. I've heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect. Also, apparently you can actually figure out what someone is typing just from the audio. So with just audio you can eventually figure out their computer passwords.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    It's also possible to see what's on a monitor's display through processing the EM emissions called Van Eck phreaking.

    There's an entire spectrum of similar attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29

    I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect.

    Anything light/thin enough to resonate at vocal frequencies that can reflect a laser (without altering polarization) will work.

    I do remember an experiment, using a chip bag, where university researchers were able to extract audio from a video of a chip bag. I believe they were mapping the intensity of the various specular highlights on the bag and playing the audible frequencies. It was muddied and choppy but intelligible.

    Even further, your location and time of recording can be roughly estimated based on audio recordings. It's called Electrical Network Frequency analysis. I forget the specifics, but it had something to do with the frequency change of the power grid (the hum of which can be picked up in some audio recordings, or inadvertently captured as noise from the audio equipment). They can take the recording, determine how the frequency shifted during the recording (corresponding to grid conditions at the time of recording) and compare them to historical data from various utility monitoring stations looking for matches. wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network_frequency_analysis

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    There’s an entire spectrum of similar attacks

    I see what you did there.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It's nice to find someone on the same wavelength :P

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    They can track you using your wifi router now, the shit is crazy

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Even crazier is that Wi-Fi sensing has been around since around 2008. The wild part is how much more they can do with it now. With AI, they can use Wi-Fi signals to track movement, map out rooms, and even detect body positions in real time. It’s not literally seeing through walls, but it’s getting pretty damn close.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    Yeah this is why I've long suspected this is the reason Google doesn't let you shut off Bluetooth or wifi permanently easily anymore. Both resemble by default. And I think WiFi even stays on on android when you have it off to facilitate a feature to detect other networks or something.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    If you're willing to fortify your network in terms of security, I highly recommend building yourself a WiFi router or just buying a highly customizable one like MikroTik or alternatives as such. I think its easily the best defense for such cases.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Totally agree - if you buy the latest TP link (or whateverm model) rather than build your own, you are handing someone else your credentials. Save that old PC and repurpose it as a router

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Any recs for the best choice for buying a home router for someone who doesn't have the knowledge to build or configure one? I'm smart enough to change the admin password and rename the default network/setup a new password, but that's about it. Mine just stopped getting security updates, plus it's a Netgear. I know no one is really trustworthy anymore, but I know some brands are more sketchy than others.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The one thing I am certain of is I will not go with tp link ever again. All the add ins they charge monthly for are free with the right router. Plus I've never gotten an update to my WiFi 6 tplink . Wait .. didn't open WRT make their own router ? ? That is the one I'd go for because they load the open source software on it ready for you to configure. I'd imagine this is better than many other options.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    I'm a network engineer, and I've built it 🤣

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    You've worked on MikroTik? If so, my warmest congratulations, my absolutely favorite piece of technology in my home. 🙇

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    I have but I'm not using mikrotik, I'm using opnsense

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Xfinity includes it in their new Wifi router and presents it as a feature:

    https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion

    You also are not able to run your own hardware, you must use theirs. This is why I canceled Xfinity on the same day they installed it, after discovering this.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Any more info on the "vibrating windows for rich people" actually for sale or being actively used on windows? Or is that theoretical?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It is not theoretical and there are companies doing the custom installation on demand.

    There is quite a bit of public info on qwant and other search engines as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003682X20309762

    Here is a device you can buy yourself, but this is on the lower end: https://creationnetworks.net/products/cambridge-sound-ds2530-70v-window-door-wall-masker-for-scif-secure-rooms-w-vol-control-retractable-cord-0815-900

    Here is what one of the laser microphones look like, and you can actually even find and buy them (although not all countries permit it, but you can still buy them with a little bit of research :) https://pki-electronic.com/products/audio-surveillance-equipment/laser-microphone

    Also an example of how its done to track your keystrokes (article paywall bypass included): https://archive.is/20251103180518/https://www.wired.com/story/infrared-laser-microphone-keystroke-surveillance/

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (8 children)

    Disable your speakers and run your audio out through an amp/speaker-bar that has no internet connection.

    You might not be able to stop Jack Bauer from personally tracking you, but the sort of dragnet surveillance most people are worried about can still, for now, be mitigated with effort.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Depends. If we're talking about malware targeting a TV OS, doing that will not really improve things. Another side note, a soundbar might include a microphone. (Most do)

    Overall, it is a viable solution, but I wouldn't bet on it at all if I were to go for full privacy.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    You'd have to pair this with removing the mics (as shown above) and clipping the speaker leads (or just damaging the diaphragm enough by poking something through the speaker grille).

    After that?

    Not an audio engy but I image a lot of external amps are built to prevent back-feeding out through the line in.

    Worst case use s/pdif, and you'll know that the only thing going through that wire is good ol' one-way pcm-digital audio.

    Also its not impossible to find a sound bar that doesn't have smart features yet. Even if it is, they tend to age way better than TV's.

    Personally?

    My living room has 480i and 1080i tubes at around 26/27inches each.

    My bedroom has a dumb 1080p panel.

    If I need something prettier I use my higher-res computer monitor (no baked in OS, just firmware for display settings.)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    My tv has precisely 2 cables going in. One for power, one for HDMI from the receiver.

    But what about the PS5, or the laptop, or the Xbox if I want to play something? I’ve air gapped the tv but the stuff it’s displaying is connected to the router.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Does it have WiFi? It doesn't need cables to look for other devices to communicate through.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yes it does which is turned off, ostensibly, I was more thinking of skynet crawling in through the Cat6 plugged into the PS5

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