Just like https certificate authorities, the only way to fight all the AI slop will be "trusted" camera firmware that signs every image with a full chain of trust that the output was a real physical video taken will a real device at a real location.

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[–] 16 points 2 months ago (-1 children)

This is terrible for privacy, and can be exploited by bad actors in a multitude of ways far worse than AI slop. A better option would be the ability to load your own cryptographic key into a device and "sign" images with an open standardized protocol in such a way that you can prove you took the image with x camera, and have the option to publicly attest that it was signed by your key at the moment of creation, but the camera images can't be cross referenced to a specific individual or camera otherwise. If someone is posting unmodified content to social media, it's in their interests to sign and attest that authenticity. You could also give users the choice to hide everything not attested.

This is how software is signed and released by (not shit) developers currently. It's also optional, so you can write and release code anonymously if you choose.

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    [–] 31 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    This is a terrible idea. So of course it already exists https://c2pa.org/

    It's already being exploited https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/blog/android-c2pa.html

    We need a solution but that's not it.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 months ago*

    Oh neat, i had no idea it was a thing already. What is a better idea?

    https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/blog/android-c2pa.html

    C2PA on the Android platform is broken

    Neat - so maybe point and click devices get to make a comeback, or the CCD itself could sign.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (-1 children)

    I'm not a researcher in this field, so I don't have anything substantial to suggest. My opinion is that it is unsolvable.

    No matter what you try, sufficiently powerful entities will be able to modify the sensor to sign images of anything they want to pass as real (or just use a very high quality projector)

    It might be better that we are all always weary of an image being AI at this point.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Counterpoint: this will kill all whistleblowing and investigative journalism. All sources revealed in an instant. We already had it bad with the printers.

    If AI is a concern mandatory AI fingerprinting as currently implemented is better.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    People can always retrain their own fingerprints free models. AI fingerprinting is only a valid strategy if you assume all AI models are Claude and ChatGPT and answer to a single legislative body to enforce it. Otherwise, there will always be massive loopholes.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    #BLOCKCHAIN #WEDDING #PHOTOGRAPHY

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    That does exist

    The problem us that it makes proprietary software mandatory

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    How quickly we forget PGP signing.

    If you want to prove something is really from you, sign it with a key.

    If you want to prove something isn't AI, you can't. You need to trust the person publishing it. And if you can trust the person publishing it, you need to trust it came from that person, which is why you signed it with your PGP key.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    If your camera can't connect to the internet, the images on it can't be stolen. Same for editing software.

    Surely there are ways to block software from sending copies of your photographs to their servers.

    Not using cloud services is probably the easiest way to keep them from stealing your images.

    Most cloud services say in the terms and services that you agree for them to have ownership of your files you upload. So just don't use cloud services.

    Even though solid state hard drives have doubled in prices, you can still find the hard drive disk drives that are decent prices.

    I just got a Seagate 4tb for $200. Store all your stuff on your drive. And don't use windows. Because they steal everything you have up on your monitor. They literally take screenshots.

    You can try turning off WiFi while you edit photos. Idk if that will fix it or not. Ask someone who would know if that does anything. Maybe it just sends it all once it connects. ?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    OP is talking about watermarking real photos so help curate an authentic feed, not protect your media from theft. Cool pictures make the internet a better place

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    There are ways to poison images so they can't be used for AI. And of course you can always add an overlay watermark in any basic graphic software that has layers and transparency settings.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    There are ways to poison images so they can't be used for AI.

    They're about as effective as 'AI detectors' and will last only as long as the current model generation hasn't been counter trained on them.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    A lot of people talk about how terrible this is for privacy but personally I completely agree with OP for public videos. The leader of a country (or province/state/city/whatever) is going to give a speech?

    I would like to be able to verify it's legitimate and accurate. Because we are already seeing political AI videos of made by the opposition of a candidate saying something they didn't actually say.

    Now I actually think any videos badmouthing an opponent shouldn't be allowed. All political videos should be on a given candidate's platform and how that will help the people they represent, and can't discuss the opponent at all, but that's just not how it works right now.

    I'll also add I have no idea how that certificate chain can be validated in a way by me that the government can't just up and change something. They control the camera. They control the root cert, I assume. They can issue new certs whenever they want. I have no way of validating the original footage was from that camera with that cert in any way that I can think of. Not to mention another poster called out any editinf software you use will need to re-sign it. But maybe there's a way to take smaller clips from a public speech and still ensure they are signed by a given certificate the larger one was.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You don't need certified hardware or remote attestation for things like politician speechs. Just have the production company sign the video. Now their reputation is on the line if it's faked.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I guess but if the production company is the Office of the President of the United States then.... What? Never trust anything they put out again? That helps me I guess but it doesn't help the other two thirds of the country.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Or integrate GPG w something like OpenCamera. Then, every time you take a photo w your device... the photo could be signed automatically and transparently w your key.

    If that existed and was used, it'd be simple to suppress Sloppy content.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Wouldn’t this key just fail anytime you share the photo due to format changes, downsampling, cropping, etc?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Yeah, from my POV that's a feature. If a process modifies your photo, its no longer your photo and shouldn't be able to masquerade as your photo.

    Obv, integrating GPG w OpenCamera is just an example. GPG could be integrated w social media apps so that after you select "share," and the image is processed, that modified image is signed before upload.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    In order for this to work, the private key used for signing has to be on the camera, and would have to be kept secret from the camera's owner. This is not possible. You can make it more difficult, use all sort of tricks to hide the key, but in the end, once somebody knows how you hide the key on their device, they'll always be able to find it. And once they have found the key, they can sign whatever false picture they want.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    Navigating Adobe is like walking through a minefield nowadays. Thankfully they're nice enough to include a little AI badge that turns on when you hit an AI setting, but I'll just be working along and accidentally hit "Denoise" rather than "Manual Denoise" and bam, AI.

    I wish apps would at least give you the option to disable AI. Honestly, it should be a legal requirement like GDPR

    (Before the OSS recs come in, I'm unfortunately stuck on Adobe. There's a high chance I've used it anyways)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago