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Zelensky Warns ‘Safe Days’ Are Over for Civilian Aircraft in Russian Airspace as He Vows To Escalate Drone Attacks (news.antiwar.com)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[–] 21 points 2 months ago

He did say he wanted Ukraine to be an Israel. Targeting civilians is a must to achieve that.

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    [–] 37 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Very normal behavior that definitely isn't a warcrime or anything. We aren't targetting civilian aircraft they just might be hit haha

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    [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Tldr the statement is basically this

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    [–] 41 points 2 months ago (21 children)

    There is no justification for attacking on civilians.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    In the linked article no one suggests attacks on civilians. Rather it reads as a way to avoid unnecessary casulties.

    What a clickbait headline.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago

    Sure but that's a threat and a weak cover. The logistics of covering Russian airspace with so many drones that a civilian aircraft would just happen into one is ridiculous. This is an incredibly common tactic.

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  • [–] 60 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah this is what he actually said...

    "Today, we want to warn every airline that uses Russian airspace, every insurer, and everyone who still uses Russia’s key airports: Russian airspace is becoming completely unsafe."

    "Ukraine does not threaten civilian aviation as such – not a single civilian aircraft. There will simply be drones in Russia’s skies on a scale that has to be taken into account"

    "We in Ukraine do not want innocent lives to be lost. That is why we are warning our partners: the safe days in Russia’s skies are over. It is important that this is heard by the ambassadors of countries represented here in Ukraine, as well as by ambassadors working in Moscow."

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    “Ukraine does not threaten civilian aviation as such – not a single civilian aircraft. There will simply be drones in Russia’s skies on a scale that has to be taken into account”

    bro, you gotta learn to read imperialese. this is imperial speak to say we're going to kill civilians. didn't you learn form the "enhanced interrogation" scandal from the gringo fascist empire?

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  • [+] -15 points 2 months ago*

    It’s actually closer to Irans playbook, making the Strait unnavigable. Notice that he explicitly called out insurers in the speech. He wants to exercise political control over the Russian airspace and he’s using drones to do it. “Too risky to travel” means no travel. That’s not killing civilians.

    It should also be completely fair to say, “hey… this is an active war zone. You probably shouldn’t fly here.” At a certain point, the risk is something that the airliner chose to accept. It’s not that Ukraine would target them. It’s that you’re in a fucking war zone, know the risks. Be glad you even got a warning for what should be common sense.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Russia does...

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    That’s not justification for killing more civilians that’s psychotic.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    If airlines care about not losing planes and people they will stop flying over Russia so it would have the ideal result of shutting down flights there. Ethically it's a bit fucked but it's likely an effective way to apply more pressure. And it's not like Russia can't just stop all of this.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I need you to understand the line you are choosing to cross here. You are now openly, in front of everybody, shrugging and vaguely justifying open mass terror against civilians.

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  • [+] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Well, that includes Russians.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Yes it does. It includes both Russian civilians and Ukrainian civilians

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    No idea why I've been downvoted. Deliberately killing any civilians is a war crime. End of point.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Because your original comment says “well Russia does it …” kindof seems like you’re implying an “eye for an eye” situation is just here. If your comment was focusing on Russian civilian death, too, it doesn’t really seem like it, kinda more like you're trying to act like Russia kills way more Ukrainian civilians and that makes it ok that Ukraine can kill Russian civilians, because “well Russia does it too …”

    If that wasn’t your intention then I apologize but you must see how it comes off that way.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I guess I've been misundestood. English does that to me time to time. What I meant is, there is no justification for attacking on civilians no matter which side you are on, that includes Russian civilians. Definitely didn't want to mean eye for an eye. That's terrible.

    Thanks for the heads up.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Well hey, your English has me convinced! I’d much rather give tips on English than explain why killing civilians, no matter who, is bad 😅 rock on friend !

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    • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    Attacks on civilians infrastructure? That sounds very illegal and may have Zelenskyy sent to The Hague.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    may have Zelenskyy sent to The Hague.

    He's white, though.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    So is Netanyahu, and he has a warrant out. If Zelenskyy starts striking civilian planes with international travelers onboard he’s going to lose support as far as Western public opinion goes and the ICC won’t be far behind.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    Kiev was already under scrutiny from western media pre-2022 for their war crimes in the Donbass region. Once the war escalated with Russia entering the war, the same media apparatus flipped 180. I doubt Ukraine attacking civilian planes will lose them support among the west.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    a warrant that's not neither being enforced by any of the countries that promised to support the icc/icj nor pursued since the us empire had the icj prosecutor relieved of duty.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Perhaps you could read the article instead of inferring what was said from a clickbait title.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago*

    “Ukraine does not threaten civilian aviation as such – not a single civilian aircraft. There will simply be drones in Russia’s skies on a scale that has to be taken into account”

    “We in Ukraine do not want innocent lives to be lost. That is why we are warning our partners: the safe days in Russia’s skies are over.

    totally not going to kill civilians, sure.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    “Today, we want to warn every airline that uses Russian airspace, every insurer, and everyone who still uses Russia’s key airports: Russian airspace is becoming completely unsafe,” Zelensky said in a post on X that cited his nightly address.

    Yes, because these are the words of a leader who definitely intends to do no harm.

    Seems like Trump is definitely rubbing off on this guy.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    To steal the post of someone hire up this post that shared the entirety of the quote...

    "Today, we want to warn every airline that uses Russian airspace, every insurer, and everyone who still uses Russia’s key airports: Russian airspace is becoming completely unsafe."

    "Ukraine does not threaten civilian aviation as such – not a single civilian aircraft. There will simply be drones in Russia’s skies on a scale that has to be taken into account"

    "We in Ukraine do not want innocent lives to be lost. That is why we are warning our partners: the safe days in Russia’s skies are over. It is important that this is heard by the ambassadors of countries represented here in Ukraine, as well as by ambassadors working in Moscow."

    You cherry picked one line without context. His statement is a warning that non military flights will be flying through an active war zone, so proceed with caution. It's not a threat that he plans to attack civilian targets. He definitely intends to do harm, to Russian military and infrastructure, but if civilians put themselves in harms way, they may end up as an accidental casualty. That's different than some like Putin who specifically targets civilians.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    And you’re assuming I didn’t read the rest of it.

    He didn’t need to state that first paragraph. Period.

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  • [+] -10 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I didn't say you didn't read it, but I did say that you were disingenuous for cherry picking part of the quote leaving out the rest of the context. The first paragraph is a fair warning to anyone flying in airspace that is going to get more dangerous. That's not him saying he's targeting civilians or that he intends to.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    But the final paragraph is him saying that they don't care if or when they take out a civilian aircraft because they did a warning.

    It's the same as when cops shoot someone while giving themselves plausible deniability

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  • [+] -19 points 2 months ago (3 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You guys are so arrogant and have your heads so far up your own asses you cant even conceive of someone disagreeing with you unless they are misinformed or a disingenuous paid troll. You guys wont see reality until it smacks you square in the face.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Not even then. They'll twist themselves into knots to find a version of reality that paints this inhumanity as something nobody could have known about at the time (and an unreasonable assumption anyway!) or they'll just deny it forever.

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    [–] -3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    So much brain rot in here. Drones can't target planes at 30,000 ft. Russian air defenses can though. If Ukrainian drones litter the skies, any twitchy finger at a SAM can down an airliner just like MH-370. That is what the warning is about. God damn

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    • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Russia entered the Ukrainian civil war precisely because it sees NATO's encirclement as an existential threat. As such, Russia will not cease until its strategic goals are met. Kiev could end the war as well by ceding the Donbass region and agreeing to NATO neutrality. The Donbass region already is more pro-Russia than pro-Ukraine, even if Kiev succeeded in pushing Russia back to the pre-2022 borders, they'd still have to contend with the seperatists they have been fighting since 2014, and failed to contain. Cozying up to NATO and agreeing to host missiles that target Russian cities, with less than a 10 minute travel time, is precisely what caused Russia to shift from diplomacy to active intervention.

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    • 2 comments in c/pravda_news@news.abolish.capital view that post
    [–] -3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    So they're really going full Israel now. Bold strategy to be so obvious/announcing about carrying out war crimes

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