Person 1 says: If you're a man I'm going to need you to never approach a woman who's alone at night time. Don't care what your intention is - unless it's an emergency, don't. You probably have no idea what the jolt of cold terror and/or the gnawing dread feels like in these situations. Thanks.  Person 2 says: Unless he's good looking, well dressed, well spoken, and driving something expensive, right?  Person 1 responds: No you fucking idiot.

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[–] 80 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 67 points 2 months ago

    This here. The kind of guy who's good looking and well-monied accosting lone women at night is very likely exactly the kind of guy who's most dangerous.

    I mean if he's such a catch, why is he trolling for women who are alone at night instead of being in a relationship already?

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  • [–] 56 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    What do I think? I think the middle message is yet another incel mouthing off because they have a personality that drives women off.

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  • [–] 48 points 2 months ago (58 children)

    I've been out as trans and living openly as a woman for only a few months now.

    harrasment & violenceIn that time I've been sexually harassed, physically threatened, screamed at from cars, had people up in my face, up to and including pushing me over, raising fists to me, screaming slurs and derogatory words at me from inches away from my face, and being sexually assaulted in a crowded public place.

    I know much of that can be attributed to transphobia but a lot of is just pure misogyny. Nearly every time I leave the house some man will aggressively intrude into my day and make me feel extremely unsafe. This is in response to me literally just walking around saying nothing, looking at the floor.

    I always knew that women had a justified fear of men. Now I have it too. Whatever I thought I understood before from listening to women, it's nothing compared to what it's like to live it.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    "Whatever I thought I understood before from listening to women, it's nothing compared to what it's like to live it."

    I'm reminded of something I read a while back, where a man named Marty accidentally was mistakenly sending emails with his female coworker's email signature and was puzzled for a while on why people were being so difficult. When he realised it, he and his colleague, Nicole, decided to switch emails for a week, as a more deliberate, extended experiment. They both did a write-up of the experience. Marty's was a Twitter thread that I can't access anymore, but Nicole wrote a blog post covering her side

    In Nicole's words:

    "Nothing changed, except that our clients read me as male and Marty as female. I had one of the easiest weeks of my professional life. He… didn’t."

    What I found so interesting about this story is that it sounds like this Marty guy was a genuine ally. Like, when Nicole called him out for speaking over her at meetings, he listened and started using his voice to bring attention to Nicole (and other women) at meetings. Iirc from his Twitter thread, he thought of himself as an ally who understood how hard women have it. Until this thing with the email signatures, that is.

    I think you're right that even if some of the harassment you've experienced is transphobia related, a lot of it will be misogyny. And I think that part of why trans women are so prominently discussed by transphobes is because of the prevalence of transmisogyny specifically.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks for sharing all that. From my perspective it's as if women all my life have been telling me about this horrible noise they hear all the time, and I've been like "wow that sounds really bad I'm sorry you have to go through that" but until I transitioned I never heard the noise myself and now it's like "damn you girls were not kidding about that noise holy shit".

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, especially early transition (in my experience) the harassment was fucking constant. It probably didn't help that I was in my early 20s still at the time. But in addition to a lot of these guys just generally being misogynists they tend to target women who look insecure, young, marginalized, etc. Don't get me wrong, it continues, but I've definitely found for me personally the everyday street harassment type stuff waned over the years. Well that or I stopped noticing all but the most egregious examples of it.

    Congrats on the transition, unfortunately yeah the prevalence of aggressive misogyny was somewhere between accurate and understated

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Thank you lovely, you were one of the first to welcome me here so I'm always happy to see one of your comments.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Also, I will say that I suspect that part of what reduced my harassment was developing a confident look of "I belong here, don't fuck with me". I only say this because you mentioned looking at the floor and because it's advice some badass women gave me years ago that I think really helped.

    There's many styles to that look and you need to find ones that are authentic to you. But harassers are bullies, and some of them won't bother when they see a target who looks like she isn't easy pickings to give them the feelings of power they want. I hate feeling like I should say this because it's really not your fault, but it helped me a lot and I don't want to leave people without such knowledge.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I'm happy for you, that you're able to live openly now.

    And sorry, yeah. It's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been in the shit. There will be good experiences, too.

    I once met the coolest men who were drunkenly celebrating a bachelor party and invited me to join (I was smoking a cigar alone on a beach after a break up) and we became friends, so I try not to close myself off to that kind of thing. At the same time all the shoving and shouting and touching makes it really fucking hard to do that.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I have a ton of great men in my life. Kind and gentle and protective in the right way. I'm not afraid of all men. But yeah the scary stuff happens often enough that I've learned to be very careful where I walk, to cluch my keys, to location share etc. It's just all the stuff that other women have told me about their whole lives. It's just quite an intense experience to have suddenly been dropped into it all in my 30s.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I am so deeply sorry, honey. My heart breaks for you. I hope you know that you don't ever deserve aaany of that shit! I wish I could bite all their heads off for you and for everyone else these garbage bags harass. :(

    I'm sending so much love to you over the Internet. I'm so damn sorry that this has been part of your welcoming to finding and living openly as the woman you are. I don't even know what to say, it's just not right!! It's extra fucked because it's like, this should be such a joyous time for you, and as usual the assholes ruin it for the decent, innocent people. I hate it so much. I'm all weepy over here for you. I'm sending you big, big Internet hugs, if you want them. 🫂💖

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Hey it is actually the most joyous time of my life. For every one negative interaction I have several more positive ones. Warm, open smiles from other women, nods and smiles of queer recognition and solidarity etc. I'm just genuinely so very very happy.

    I just wanted to share here because it's something that I got to see from both sides if you know what I mean. I used to be invisible and now I'm not. And now I understand what that fear feels like, before I used to just hear about from other women.

    Thanks for being so kind. I'm really doing okay.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (46 children)
  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 months ago (41 children)

    Are you sure the woman you're talking to came to the women's community to get a man's advice?

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  • [+] 3 points 2 months ago (41 children)
  • [–] [S] 6 points 2 months ago (30 children)

    That's your problem for not curating your feed.

    You're not helping anyone. You're a man in a women's community giving unsolicited advice to a woman.

    You don't need a disclaimer, you need to shut up and listen.

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  • [+] 3 points 2 months ago (30 children)
  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (15 children)

    You agreed to adhere to community specific rules when you made an account.

    Have you considered maybe it’s your problem your problem for creating a community in a federated system, and then posting in it,

    Yeah, it's women's problem for having our own community. What the fuck, dude?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    I can see your instance, it's not secret.

    When going to other communities, respect their rules AND our rules when they are more restrictive. Do not give cause for others to de-federate our instance please.

    Edit: apologies for being blunt, I thought you were The Terrible Humbaba that I was conversing with - regardless, your instance does require you to adhere to community specific rules.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    You're the only one triggered here bud. We're where we should be, but you got your feelings hurt so you need to stay and argue about it.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Way to put your problems on women. You're really helping out with your advice now.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Blame for what exactly? Calling someone out who can't help but give unsolicited advice and invade women's spaces? I wonder what that says about you.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Proving once again that there are men that refuse to do the necessary work and will attack women instead of looking inward.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    This is a women's only community that you are desecrating.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not one to shut up when a man tells me to.

    I'll roll in the mud with you. I don't give a fuck. You're displaying rapist tendencies in here and it's disgusting.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Usually when people break the rules, they are polite and then stop the rule breaking.

    You're doubling down and insisting on forcing yourself on us.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You're not being polite in any way, shape, or form.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    Have you considered paying attention? You earned whatever you got here.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Where was the stone in that one? Come on. My comebacks were way better than that.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Rules…

    Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women’s community is a good fit for them.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    therefore I’ll keep throwing stones back as they are thrown at me.

    Men like you are why I'm such a fucking pain in the ass on this site.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    You like it, don't you? Refusing to listen to women? Forcing them to deal with you, pushing past their boundaries?

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    I prefer to see when sexists like you are around.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    You were the first to be rude.

    "As a man" psshhhhhhhh

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    If you didn't know the rules, why would you start your comment making it clear you're a man?

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    For the record, starting any advice "as a man" when talking to a woman is going to ruffle feathers. It's presumptuous and rude. As if you being a man gives you more authority to advise women. Especially in a women's only community - even if we didn't have the rule "women only", that advice would be taken poorly here.

    You only pretend to respect women. Your actions here have laid bare your true feelings about boundaries that women put up.

    I didn't start out rude to you:

    There were over 60 comments when you first replied 2 hours ago. Please don’t lie.

    You know the rules here now. You know you’re breaking them now.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    My other initial comments weren't rude either. You have a fragile ego.

    It’s always surprised me how many people in the Fediverse will leave comments on a post without reading any of the other comments.

    There’s like…multiple conversations that have happened here that made it clear that we don’t want to hear men’s voices in here.

    If I think I might help a woman to suffer less, should I abstain from doing it because men are not welcome?

    Yes.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I don’t want to continue, but if you speak factual bs you kind of force my hand

    Continuing to not take responsibility for your own actions. You are in control of your actions. I'm not forcing you to do shit.

    You have to have the last word over women, don't you?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    It's always surprised me how many people in the Fediverse will leave comments on a post without reading any of the other comments.

    There's like.....multiple conversations that have happened here that made it clear that we don't want to hear men's voices in here.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Most of the comments were not here when I saw the post,

    There were over 60 comments when you first replied 2 hours ago. Please don't lie.

    You know the rules here now. You know you're breaking them now.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    There were several conversations about men not being allowed. I will call you a liar because you are lying to try to make yourself look better.

    You look bad here. You're continuously breaking the rules because why? Your ego is bruised? You don't want to listen to women?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I don’t claim to speak for all women

    not beating the woman lorax allegations

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    They had actually defended you elsewhere, but you just can't help but attack women, can you?

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Rules…

    Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women’s community is a good fit for them.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You've already admitted to being a dick in here. What does it do for you to force yourself on women?

    Does it give you a thrill?

    Do you enjoy hearing a woman protest as you push and push and push past every request she's made of you?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)
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    [–] 44 points 2 months ago

    I've never been that worried about strangers tbh. All the worst things to ever happen to me were always done by people I trusted and didn't even think I needed to protect myself from.

    But even if I'm not scared, I'm not going to, like, accept a proposition this way, so there's no point in it. It's not really a good vibe for getting someone's number.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago

    No, not even then. If you do, it better be for a good reason and you should be meek about it.

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  • [–] 30 points 2 months ago

    I'm so sick of white cisgender men acting like the most oppressed and persecuted minority on the planet. These days I find it very difficult to respond to people like this rationally without telling them to fuck off and hammer their faces some more.

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