My router has a pretty descent firewall so i feel like it should be safe? Maybe. Obviously I won't be signing into any online accounts or anything like that on the XP machine. Is this a bad ideas? Obviously using Windows in general is a bad idea but I'm sort of limited by the hardware here.

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[–] 19 points 3 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Wouldn't any attackers need to penetrate the firewall first though?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    The risk is your computer reaching out to something on the internet (either by you browsing, or some automatic background activity) and whatever it finds infects it.

    This could be something like an ad on an otherwise trustworthy website.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, its pretty safe. XP on the open internet is bad, but behind a NAT is mostly fine. Just be very careful not to port forward or UPnP any ports to the XP box. The other concern would be ie6 reaching out to the internet, ideally you'd want to restrict that, as there are probably ie6 exploits around, but even this is fairly low risk.

    What do plan on doing with the box? That may increase your risk level.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Ehhhh, bots are constantly crawling for vulns these days. I wouldn't trust in security through obscurity anymore.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    A NAT/Firewall isn't obscurity, its actual protection. Any scanning bot would need to breach the firewall/NAT first before it could ever see the XP box. And if the bot can do that, it doesn't need the XP box.

    Making sure the XP box doesn't poke holes in the NAT is important, so depends what OP is planning on doing.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    XP has background services that automatically connect to the outside for stuff. Most of those remain inside your network, but not all. It only takes a hardcoded expired domain to get instant infection without any user action.

    I would never consider connecting a winXP machine to the internet safe.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Are you starting fresh with XP or using an old crusty install. If you start fresh you should be fine. Just don’t browse the internet on it, or run sketchy ass software on it. And turn it off when you’re done. Behind NAT the only way for your device to get infected is for something else on the network infect it.

    Also FYI it’s probably not going to work with your WiFi. You’re probably going to need to be hard wired. Most built in network cards from windows XP era machines don’t understand WPA2, and WPA3 is allegedly backwards compatible, but it REALLY hates older devices that barely speak WPA 2.

    I have an old router that I installed DD-WRT on that I use for my old devices. I have the WiFi power dropped down to the bare minimum, and it barely leaves the room. Then I have an open WiFi network with MAC address filtering, that automatically turns off after a few hours of no devices. I can turn it on with the WPS button. That gets me a relatively not entirely insecure wireless network that I can use on devices all the way back on my iBook G3 or earlier.

    Just remember, you are the biggest threat to your network.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    If you start fresh you should be fine. Just don’t browse the internet on it, or run sketchy ass software on it. And turn it off when you’re done. Behind NAT the only way for your device to get infected is for something else on the network infect it.

    There is a lot of wisdom here, but be cautious...

    "Back in the day" (when xp was still relevant), I installed a VM with xp on the cooperate LAN. ...as it took eons to install all the patches and updates, this turned into a multi-day task. I didn't browse the internet or do anything (because the patches were still installing/rebooting/ect).

    When I came back to the office, the next day, the networking on the VM was disabled and I got a message from the local IT guy saying that my VM was part of a botnet and was spreading worms, so they had to quarantine it (by disabling the networking).

    I literally did nothing with it, other than install updates. I assume someone in the office had a worm and it infected my VM during the night.

    ...so if you're playing with xp (or any unsupported version of windows) - be careful.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    My guess was that it was the updates that did the thing. I think I remember there being an issue up to Win 7 where malicious parties could advertise malware as available updates (under win7 this was only a problem if you didn't let it select and download manually).

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Any particular reason it needs to be XP?

    Last time I checked there was over 40 open exploits that are fairly easy to trigger. (Mostly related to web browsing or gpu acceleration)

    I'd imagine something like Debian or Alpine would run on it?

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I wanted XP to play old games but now i'm thinking that's a waste of time. I might try AntiX on it. This thing has 512MB or RAM and 32MB of VRAM I think. It can't even run Windows 7 lol. I gotta wait for the laptop charger to come though as I haven't even been able to verify the thing will power on. Let's hope for the best. Also, the CPU is 32 bit and Debian is dropping support for it. We'll see how that affects AntiX.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    If all you are going to do is play old stand alone games why are you attaching it to a network?

    Just sneakernet the install.

    I would not attach an XP machine to a network.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    Unless it's built into something and can't be changed, what possible benefit could there be to connecting an old, unsupported OS to the internet!?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    The XP device is a major security risk because its got known security vulnerabilities that are not patched and actively targetted. Its targetted because hackefs know there are bad businesses and users still running xp.

    The issue is less your firewall and instead your whole network. If XP has internet access and is on your home network, it gives hackers and malware a route through to your other devices.

    If you want to connect XP to the internet then there are two realistic options.

    One is give the XP machine its own isolated network alongside your home network - a VLAN (virtual local area network) - i.e. a second physical network if your router supports it. One easy way of doing that is to see if your router has a Guest Wifi set up, and if so ensure that is configured to be entirely separate from your main network. But this is still risky because if you dont know what youre doing you could accidentally leave your network exposed. Also if you already use the guest network - for guests for example - then you'll put those devices at risk, and should make a whole dedocated vlan instead.

    The other option is get a second router, create a wifi with that (or ethernet connection ideally) and connect that router to the internet via an always on VPN (virtual private network). The second router and network would completely physically isolates the XP machine from your home network, even though it needs to connect through your first router to reach fhe internet. The VPN is key there, but if you dont want to use a VPN you could also isolate the second in a VLAN on your main router. This is similar to option one but would allow a totally separate dedicated wifi connection without losing your guest wifi or compromising your home wifi.

    The XP machine itself will always be vulnerable whatever you do. Obviously configure a firewall and antivirus on it, and be safe in how you use it, to minimize the risk.

    Whatever you do, do not connect rhe XP machine directly to your home network if you're giving it access out onto the internet.

    Edit: I may have misubderstood the question. If the device is not being allowed internet access at all, its safe to be on your network as long as you are careful what you load onto it. Malware on the XP device would still have access to your network. But yes if its contained behind your firewall and locked in, its not a problem in itself. I'd question why it needs to be on the network at all if you're not giving it internet access though.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Haven't there been videos showing either XP or 98 or both connected as fresh installs and within minutes having all sorts of issues?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    You probably wouldn't even be able to visit websites/have them work correctly, because the browser is so outdated.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    I would avoid giving it internet access. You could probably get away with network access, but id still mainly restrict it to a disconnected network and just download anything you need for it from a modern machine. (Probably a shared nas for transfer.) If you've got a good router (ie not a isp or home router) you could give it access to specific items on a whitelisting basis.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago
    [–] 3 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Could you just put Linux on the old machine instead? I suspect that would be safer.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    I mean yeah, safer and better but I wouldn't be able to game on it though. It's not like the thing supports Vulkan.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Steam OS? Or emulators? It's not like an old laptop is going to be running modern games

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I doubt SteamOS will run on a laptop from 2003. Maybe Atari 2600 and NES emulation will work fine. I don't expect this shitbox to run Cyberpunk 2077. I was hoping more for Postal and Quake.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe SteamOS wouldn't work, but maybe something like Debian or Linux Mint. Especially Debian is designed with a lot of backwards compatibility, even though it is very slow at adopting new updates for software (that are not security relevant).

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    I'd say no. I have a separate router with no internet access for my XP LAN gaming.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    macOS can read FAT32 and NTFS just fine. I’d put the drive in an external case and copy it over. You could also use PuTTY tools to copy from Windows using sftp (on macOS). I think macOS also offers samba?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    well realistically its not dangerous unless you have some very open/unrestricted network setup

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Only if it's an air gapped network with no internet access.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Install Linux Mint.

    Lighter than it ought to be.

    Runs on potato.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    This potato only has 512MB of RAM.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    And you can’t boost it to 2g or 4g? Probably time to let it go, unless you want to run Damn Small Linux?

    I have Fedora 6 disc set, if you need to get started with an older kernel?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    If you can, I’d just block connections from this WinXP box to the Internet completely, then it should be fine.

    I don’t know the reputation of this host, whether it’s a C2 slave/bot or other malware.

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