Feels to me like GrapheneOS did exactly what it should, passing the US border test with flying colours!

Funny part about this lawsuit: “With a little planning ahead of time, you can always download the data you need once you get to where you’re going,”

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[–] 160 points 3 months ago (20 children)

this was a streisand effect for me because i didn't have duress password set up on my grapheneos phone (security & privacy => device unlock) before but i do now! :D

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  • [–] [S] 39 points 3 months ago (15 children)

    best promotion ever haha What is it? FU-123?

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  • [–] 46 points 3 months ago* (14 children)

    I imagine the best duress PIN is something you'd actually see a "normal" person set as a PIN, like their birth year or something innocuous and easy to remember (and easily believed by whoever's demanding your PIN), while their real PIN would be longer or more abstract.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    Honestly I would use a stupid basic one that someone might try and use if they were guessing. Like a duress pin of 1-1-1-1, 1-2-3-4 or 2-4-6-8. It gets the people who take the device and then try and break into it without your permission as it's almost certain they will at least try one of those three.

    Worst case scenario they ask you and you say what it is and they give you a blank stare of "really?..." it's not like they wouldn't try a pin you gave them.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I don't recommend a duress password of 1-1-1-1, because that could be set off accidentally.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Or those common dumb ones could be attempted by someone just trying to snoop on your phone.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    that's sort of the point of it being super basic. The intent is you want it to be tried before they somehow manage to get your actual pin, or give up and try to force you to provide it.

    if they put the pin in before you tell them a pin the argument for destroying evidence is weakened heavily as it isn't a you initiated thing.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds dumb to give it out, but mine is my normal 8-digit pin, just backwards. It's easy to remember and seems like a legitimate PIN.

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  • [–] 25 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    On GrapheneOS, you can also set a "second factor PIN" in the unlock settings under "Fingerprint Unlock", so that to unlock your screen you need to first use the fingerprint unlock and then separately enter your PIN. This means BOTH are required every time you unlock. Your phone can't be unlocked unless it's your finger AND unless you enter the PIN that only you know.

    And under the Screen Lock settings you can also enable "Scramble PIN input layout", so that the number buttons on your unlock screen will be out of order, so people watching you or recording you can't just make note of the shape your index finger is making when touching the numbers to unlock your phone(like people looking over your shoulder or recording on store security cameras).

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    What I find foolish is there's no pin only to unlock (no biometrics), but biometrics available when unlocked

    Plenty of my apps have biometric verification I'd love to take advantage of, but I don't need or want one to unlock the phone itself

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  • [–] 73 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Good.

    That's legal, fuck you. It's my data, and I want it (gone) now!

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago*

    Its good if the courts hold that sentiment up in his favor.

    If they don't and take the border patrols side in this case then this just sets a horrific precedent for the future.

    I hope the feds get raked over the coals in this court case and not only loose but get the dog shit sued out of them for this stunt.

    I'm not optimistic anymore though.

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  • [–] 134 points 3 months ago* (21 children)

    Perfectly legal. Unless they were legally charged and ordered by a court to preserve data considered to be used in a crime, they can't be charged with shit. Cops don't dictate this, courts do, AND that scope only applies to an active prosecution anyway.

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  • [–] 25 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    There’s a bunch of legislation and case law saying that searches are OK within x (50?) miles of a border crossing which covers something like 90% of the population because they count international airports.

    So it might get sticky for the person.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago* (7 children)

    Search is not the same thing. Search means they CAN legally search. It absolutely does mean that wiping your phone prevented, obstructed, or obscured a SEARCH. Search all you fucking want, that data is gone. It's not retroactively comparable.

    That being said, had there been a judge that said "You can't wipe your phone, because you are being charged with a crime, and we believe there is evidence of this crime on your phone, and here is why..."

    Way different, and these laws only exist to prevent law enforcement from being caught in a cyclical legal roundabout in court related to the 4th amendment, and even then, many defense lawyers get "gray area" material data evidence thrown out because of Miranda Rights, or illegal searches by law enforcement of data harvested when the defendent was not properly advised or advocated for their ability to refuse.

    Murderers get off for this shit because Cops get overzealous and don't follow the letter of the law or chain of custody in evidentiary collection.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    From the article

    "The government’s indictment, which contains a typo (“Untied States Code”), accuses Tunick of allegedly providing a passcode to border agents that caused the phone to “delete the digital contents,” prior to the device being seized."

    "When Tunick provided his passcode and the authorities entered it, “the screen went blank, flashed several times and the phone appeared to restart.” The authorities seized his phone anyway, before telling him that he was free to go and could enter the United States."

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    Yes, and only JUDGES are able to make that determination.

    There is no stature in Federal or State law that says this is a crime, and no superceded precedent for this.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    No it can be police that charge.

    My state 100% has this law and police charge suspects for this.

    ORC 2921.12 Tampering with evidence.

    (A) No person, knowing that an official proceeding or investigation is in progress, or is about to be or likely to be instituted, shall do any of the following:

    (1) Alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any record, document, or thing, with purpose to impair its value or availability as evidence in such proceeding or investigation;

    (2) Make, present, or use any record, document, or thing, knowing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, or with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation.

    (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of tampering with evidence, a felony of the third degree.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    In your Section A right there: "official proceeding"

    There was no crime in progress, suspicious activity, or active charges brought against this person.

    Maybe reread the article.

    Also, Police do not bring charges, Prosecuting Attorneys do. Police are only responsible for investigations and arresting. Everything else is cleared by the legal system first.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    You're wrong and arguing in bad faith now.

    People get charged with tampering for all types of shit, like eating drugs during an arrest. The laws surrounding the bordes are dumb as fuck, but legally-speaking border operations can be construed as official proceedings, although it's only an investigation that is required. Which it obviously was.

    Prosecutors ultimately argue charges, but police organize those charges before presenting them to the the state.

    Knock it off. Stop being a contrarian weirdo.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    You seem to have zero knowledge on the subject, so let me educate you a lil bit:

    Data isn't treated like physical evidence.

    Drugs and weapons are physical evidence.

    US laws do not cover any protections of ephemeral (non-physical) evidence pertaining to crimes committed ex post facto: meaning law enforcement is not privy to any and all collection of said data if not in scope for a crime committed, unlike...PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.

    You can see drugs. You can hold drugs. Law enforcement can make a reasonable assumption that someone shooting a gun in public is breaking the law and seize that gun, because they are actually breaking the law (juris laws dependent) by firing the gun.

    If suddenly our laws allowed the assumption that whatever exists on a phone for a random person in public contains something related to a crime, police would be able to stop anyone and everyone on the street everywhere and take their phone or data for simply thinking every person is suspicious. This is why the 4th amendment exists, and why police are enot allowed to do such things. His is why warrants are a thing.

    Read up.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Not every search is comparable to one another. Searching a car for immigrants near the border fence is one thing while searching an American citizen's personal phone containing all kinds of private informatoon at an airport in the middle of Georgia is another. This is all based off allegations of CSAM, but I would imagine the federal government would actually have to make a case for why they suspected CSAM in the first place to make the seizure legitimate. In reality, they probably wanted this guys messages and phone calls related to his activism so that they can target those people too, which is going to be hard to make a case for in court depending on the judge.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Perfectly legal. Unless they were legally charged and ordered by a court to preserve data considered to be used in a crime, they can’t be charged with shit. Cops don’t dictate this, courts do, AND that scope only applies to an active prosecution anyway.

    I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not arguing that you're wrong here, but the article describes the federal law the journalist was charged with. It seems very broad, and it's a bullshit law, but from what's here, it seems more grey area than perfectly legal. All of 2232 seems to require knowledge (which it seems like he had, but might be arguable) and action. You could argue that the journalist didn't take any affirmative action to wipe the phone. The action that wiped it was the feds entering a code.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    Yeah, you're wrong in a number of different ways. No, you're not a lawyer.

    What you linked to is precedent par notice. Every single subordinate literally mentions notice.

    A law enforcement officer of ANY type is not able able to issue that notice.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    It depends. If the police suspect the owner has evidence of some sort on the phone, destroying it can lead to a tampering with evidence charge from the police.

    A tampering charge doesn't have to be from a court order. If someone eats or dumps out drugs where the police can't collect the physical drug, it will stick.

    But in the story's case, it falls within the 100 miles of the US boarder (called a boarder search exception) a warrant, probable cause, or RAS aren't needed here. It's considered a reasonable search so the 4th amendment is limited here.

    There is a lot to it and really don't think this is the best format for it here.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    It does not depend. 4th amendment is superceded by any state law, and it's SUPER clear that unless a crime has been committed and prosecutorial procedures are in place, no search or seizure is legal.

    That's the whole point.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    It's a federal law. It's been legal since the constitution was written. There have been numerous court hearings stating it's legal.

    You might want to reread the 4th again. The supreme court has ruled international boarder crossing as a reaonable search, thus no warrant, RAS, or PC needed.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Again...you can SEARCH all you want. Whether you find anything is not mandated.

    I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    And if you destroy evidence during an official investigation, it's tampering.

    I'm not sure why you're so confidently wrong. It's fucking embarrassing.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Did you read the article and the laws pertaining to data seizure at the border? Crossing the border doesn't constitue an investigation of ANY kind, and also doesn't suddenly conjure up some sort of suspicion that a crime is in progress or has been committed, meaning no pretense for charges because PERSONAL DATA was not seized. Good lawd.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    If it was evidence, they fucked up BIG TIME if their actions weren't read-only from the beginning. A distress password would be an attempt at destruction of evidence, but completely unsuccessful.

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  • [–] 63 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    claimed they did not need a warrant to search Tunick’s phone because he had not yet crossed the U.S. border.

    Also no right to search / seize his phone then. US law doesn't apply on non-US soil.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    If it's not US soil, it's not a detention, it's a rendition, a kidnapping.

    Also, I don't know how citizenship works I this respect in the US, but in my country a citizen cannot be denied entry. It can be detained upon entering, but by then you are in sovereign soil.

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  • [–] 113 points 3 months ago (18 children)

    This is why I'm never going to the US until all this shit is fixed. Which will probably be never

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (14 children)

    I lost interest of ever visiting again when they started collecting fingerprints from everyone visiting.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Where are you located? Biometric passports needs your fingerprints since ages already.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    Ages.... You young ones... (decades, yes)

    Locally I am okay with it (possibly not having a choice anyway) but you got shafted post 9/11. So I was there a few times before that.

    I can travel freely in the EU.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    Decades is ages for most human beings 😁

    I'm not an American but yeah that bs sure creeped over here after 2001.

    Edit: you still need an ID (like a passport) to travel in the EU, it's just that no one cares if you don't take the plane or go to sweden.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I have my Personalausweis and Reisepass but sometimes don't even need it when being checked in, depending from which country to which. It's strange sometimes.

    Ah yes I actually had to look up the definition of ages with the translation. For me it subjectively differs in the meaning with the German translation so you're right, it just means a long time. For me ages is more akin to ancient 😁 so I might need to rectify that.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    You can sand your fingerprints painlessly with fine sandpaper, my dad did it so he didn't have to clock in at work

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  • [–] 44 points 3 months ago

    Hmm. Maybe DHS can fuck all the way off?

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  • [–] 83 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Good. Annoying to rebuild his phone, but better than handing it to fascists who don't even have a lawful court order for it.

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  • [–] 40 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    In all likelihood they kept his phone and will retain possession until charges are dismissed. Get a burner phone and wipe it before going through security. I assume if they see your phone is "fresh" they'll take it on suspicion anyway.

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  • [–] 28 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Would you want the phone back after it's been in their hands? I wouldn't trust them to leave it alone.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    GOS has boot attestation. But yeah, if I would travel to the US (I will no longer do that) I would bring a sacrificial device.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Surely he was also using the built in backup feature, if he was he would have been able to grab another used Pixel, install GOS, then just recover from his backup (I haven't tried the restore yet just because I'm lazy, fingers crossed it works).

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  • [–] 32 points 3 months ago

    Sounds like the border guard wiped his phone, not him.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Would be cool to have your device partitioned by separate passwords, so you could unlock a dummy system.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    yes you can. On Graphene you can set the main profile as just there with nothing except to control wifi/add esim/etc. Then you can create many profiles with their own passwords. You can store your work stuff in 1 profile, private stuff in another. You can even create a dummy profile with fake Google. .

    The downside currently is that the OS autoboot to main profile. Then you switch to your other profiles.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Good writeup, and the downside you flagged is the interesting bit. Profiles are enumerable. A dummy profile survives a glance at the screen and stops working the second someone can see profile 2 exists and asks you to open it.

    The property you want on top of your setup is that the second thing can't be shown to exist at all, so it looks like random noise rather than a locked door. Then the dummy isn't a dummy, it's just the phone.

    (I work on DeniableOS, which is built around that. Your profile setup is still the right free answer for most people and I wouldn't talk anyone out of it.)

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    That exists. The thing to watch is the difference between separate profiles and a hidden one.

    Graphene gives you multiple profiles with their own passwords, but profiles are enumerable. Anyone poking at the device sees that profile 2 is there, so "open that one too" is the obvious next sentence.

    The version you're describing works when the second environment can't be shown to exist at all, so it reads as encrypted random noise, which is what empty encrypted space looks like anyway. One PIN gets you a full boring phone, the other gets you your real one.

    Only holds up if the boring phone is actually convincing though. Six apps and no photos fails on the spot.

    (I work on DeniableOS, which does the hidden version, so weigh that how you like.)

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  • [–] 72 points 3 months ago
    [–] 24 points 3 months ago

    Yeah I wonder what the penalty is for doing something legal with something you own.

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