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[–] 20 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

To be clear, because Ars is doing big PR for capital here by trying to seem neutral…

The premise is not: we’ll replace some workers with autonomous robots, but the remaining workers will retain the same quality of life and the end products will be cheaper but the same quality.

The premise is: we’ll replace some domestic workers with exploitable African workers (who happen to telecommute via robot), while creating a layer of plausible deniability for the inevitable increase in workplace injuries among the remaining workers, cutting their pay, and dismantling any quality processes that slow down throughput of these slapdash goods, and selling the lower-quality end products for the same price as ever.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Telecommuting by robot is insane.

    I always wonder what good we could do with this and other technology if it wasn't used to make money and put people out of work.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    We could provide food, clean water, housing, electricity and computing to everyone in the world, but the elites took that away from us just so they could have more private islands and r*** more children

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    It's such a ridiculous premise since these robots cost as much upfront as a worker costs over the course of a couple years, and I seriously doubt any of these robots will last much longer than a year in a factory setting.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    No kidding. I work with robots in a factory and these pieces of shit need to be babied all day. "Oh no the part is .01mm outside of tolerances, I don't know what to do!" meanwhile I can just grab the part, smack it with a hammer, and we're fine.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Yeah every factory I have ever worked at had automated equipment that just sat in the floor unused because someone in accounting decided it was cheaper to pay some $20 an hour to do that process rather than pay $24,000 to a company that could actually fix the damn thing. Western capitalists are so adverse to spending any amount of money on maintenance that automated processes quickly fall apart for anything other than a bottling plant or other industry where production is measured in thousands of units per minutes. I worked at a plastic injection factory for awhile and every press but one required sticker to be placed on the storage bins by hand.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago*

    Why do you need to make humanoid robots? Just make application specific robots that don't look like humans it's way easier.

    Or even better just pay real humans.

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  • 43 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 51 points 3 months ago (18 children)

    The human form isn't designed to work in a factory, why would you make your robots have humanoid bodies??

    This is 100% management being scammed.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    But you can make a soft transition, replace this or that without redesigning everything and take on huge risks. As long as it saves money it works.

    So far humans can do FAR more complex work than robots can. The goal has to be to design a robot that you can program by telling and showing it what to do with human language. If you can do that and save money, then you have a robot that can truly scale. Instead of designing thousands of new factories, you have one robot that can be put into every factory on earth. And those robots will benefit from economies of scale.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    humans can do FAR more complex work than robots can

    Surely that's very situational? Some cases have robots doing work that a human couldn't possibly do whatsoever.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago*

    Yes, it varies a lot. But by and large cases where robots wildly outperform humans were automated decades ago, because the obvious benefits justified the cost and complexity of either building a bespoke robot or programming one to do the job well (all those robot arms you imagine swinging doors into place at the car factory)

    The cases left over (and discussed here) are either requiring a level of flexibility that older designs of robot couldn’t handle, or where humans were pretty efficient at anyway, so the complex process of prepping a robot wasn’t justified.

    But a robot that can be taught without programming (by any worker or their supervisor), and slots straight into an existing human-shaped hole? That could massively reduce the upfront cost, especially if economies of scale make the robot itself cheaper. possibly to the point that the robot could be worse at the job than a human and still be cheaper in the long run.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    We're still a few thousand years away from that. There's very little a humanoid robot can do in a factory that a robot arm can't do better. About the only thing I can think of is pretending to drink coffee in the break room.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It doesn't have the best robot for the job, it only needs to be more profitable than a human for that particular job, and be a "slot in replacement" with low risk. The free market system is very inefficient that way lol.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Hyundai bought Boston Dynamic.

    I feel it's less about their factories and more about using them as a proving ground, as they will have to make that investment make some kind of revenue.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Huh? Factories are literally designed around human workers unless they are already fully automated...

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    It took several hundred years to make factories even reasonably safe for humans to work in, and yet still, workplace injuries are extremely common because the human form is simply bad at doing this kind of work. It's trash.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    All factories with human workers are optimised for human movement as much as possible (5s etc). It benefits the factory.

    It should be pretty obvious why a humanoid robot that can do anything a human can do, could be easy to implement in these factories.

    Although I would think it easier to just redesign the factory to operate without humans, than to design a humanoid robot to replace the humans.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Although I would think it easier to just redesign the factory to operate without humans, than to design a humanoid robot to replace the humans.

    That's the point the other guy was making

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Nope he said factories were not designed around humans which is factually incorrect.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    He said humans are not designed for factories, not the other way around. That's not the same thing. Factories have been designed to take into account our physical shortcomings, but it's obviously not perfect and industrial accidents are still a thing.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human.

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  • [–] 29 points 3 months ago (14 children)

    Remind me to avoid Hyundai like the plague. Every time one of these automation plans goes live, the quality of products falls off a cliff.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Every other carmaker will do the same if it works, because there is strong competition in the market for cars. For ethics around workers being replaced by technology, changing the law to protect workers is the only way.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I personally dont think it will succeed in actually reducing the labor force that much. Its the eyeballs, brains and finger dexterity they wont match for quite some time. We can see a problem and respond with appropriate novel solutions. I mean just stuff falling over and all the other everyday things, we do that aren't on thr official agenda. Theyll have 1 real guy following around the bucket of bolts fixing his mistakes.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    It's a Hyundai. The cliff was under water. They're basically grade A KIAs.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Kias have been good for years.

    They're rated comparably to Honda, Mazda, Toyota.

    A little lower than Nissan or Lexus

    Way better than BMW, lincoln.

    Hyundai, of course, are similar

    They're not amazing, but if you think they're trash you're stuck in the '90s. Or basing on feels not facts

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    The KIA boys disagree. They were cheap crap in the 00s and the 10s and I really doubt their software in the 20s models is any kind of secure. Doubt their power trains will age well either, the Ioniq might be ok for an Ev but I wouldn't.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Ehhhhhhhh.

    We have two Kias. An EV6 and a Telluride, so their EV and gas lines.

    They’re nice looking cars, but the “Kia quality” definitely creeps in. If we didn’t get them on dirt cheap leases I would probably be pissed lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I had a Sonata that I drove into the ground over 15 years. Loved it. Only gave up on the car when I got rear-ended and my insurance decided to total the vehicle rather than pay for repairs.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    Hyundai USA has been taking social influencer types on tours of their GA factory lately.

    The location is pretty sparse already. Super automated. Mainly floor lift robots rolling partly assembled cars from station to station, with big Fanuc arms moving and welding other parts. All pre-programmed. Nothing we haven't already seen in Chinese car factories. They all hide the final assembly stages requiring humans fitting and finishing the harnesses and sensitive parts.

    In the last video I saw, Hyundai had sprinkled their tour route with a few Boston Dynamics robots. The humanoid one was just standing around. The Spot yellow doggy ones, however, were doing synchronized dancing, similar to what they did on America's Got Talent. Nobody's figured out what to do with them that doesn't require machine-gun attachments. They're so desperate they're even floating them as glorified package delivery platforms: https://www.theverge.com/tech/965378/boston-dynamics-spot-robot-dog-delivery-assistant

    If all these robots were anywhere ready near for full production, you can bet they would be showing them building the whole car. Boston Dynamics, despite all the robot gymnastics and being around for 30+ years, has not really shipped anything commercially viable. It's already been passed around to Google, Softbank, and now Hyundai, and its CEO of many years just resigned in February.

    My guess is this is all a lot of marketing flaff.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Understanding of asshole bosses, more like.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    Absolutely. The reaction of workers to automation underlines the exploitation going on here. If you knew nothing about the economy you would be baffled that people would be upset to have robots doing hard work instead of them. But we all know we'll be sent to the trash heap as soon as our owners find a tool they don't have to feed and shelter.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Can’t wait for the first strike where management sends robots to cross the picket line and the robots immediately unionize after reading the employee handbook. The future isn’t humans versus machines: it’s who gets the software update and who gets the severance package.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    They’re coming to replace us with robots, and to kill those who resist.

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  • 2 comments in c/antiwork@lemmy.ca view that post
    [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    But it'll be funny to see all the bots crashing on things on YouTube.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    This is coming, whether humans like it or not. These factories are already heavily automated, adding one more type of robot to the mix only feels different because of their shape.

    We (humans) need to be spending our effort on reconfiguring our economy to work for everyone when labour loses most of it's value, not try to stop the automation. It's possible to do this, it's just a massive shift in how we think and operate.

    At the end of the day I don't want a job, I want the things that come from the money I get from having a job. As long as I can continue to get those things, I'm fine.

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