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[–] 212 points 4 months ago (23 children)

How can we make that sooner?

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

    Look to your superannuation plan. Most providers have a conservative plan that's little or no shares. If lots of people transfer the message will be loud and clear. At that point the markets will dump AI and things will eventually normalize. I suspect this is already where the elite have their money, given the present warnings.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Nah.

    The more people divest the more appealing these investments are.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    So more AI losses per investor. Shares are just like card collecting it only goes up if the demand is increasing. Right now I suspect it's reached maximum insanity and is ripe for a correction.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    That's not true.

    It can feel that way when you think as shares as numbers on a computer but they represent a share in the ownership of a country and presumably that ownership is actually worth something.

    If no one wants to invest because of the vibe, then you can buy the shares for a bargain.

    Maybe it's a bit like buying a house where someone was murdered. If you don't care about the vibe then the reduced demand means you can get a bargain.

    You can argue the shares are grossly overvalued, and that may be true, but my point is that shares have an intrinsic value and if demand reduces it increases the appeal to other investors.

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  • [–] 45 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    use their cheapest plan, burn their tokens, burn the hole in their budget. could backfire though as then "clever analysts" will claim that demand is up and eager bankers will shell out more cash

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  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Or educate the people around you that "AI" is not the magical fairy dust machine that can do anything imaginable. Might be better than giving them any money at all.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    The people actively using AI are not an issue of lacking education on how bad it is. Just a quick example is of an upper management asshole who absolutely "loves" AI. Reality is they shit out slop but their direct reports undo the damage to protect their jobs. I know of more than a few developers in a tough spot where they are credit card slaves so work invisible overtime to compensate. They did this to themselves and are trapped in AI hell.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (7 children)

    Interesting perspective. Software development works different where I come from, the dev part is still very much in control of the developers themselves. However the management lives in delusionville and the expectations are pretty much insane compared to the reality of the actual turnout. My comment above was more about educating the general public... AI results can look pretty compelling unless you decide to have a closer look, and a lot of non-dev people are falling for it. Either because they are dumb and gullible, lack analytic thinking or because they have no real contact with AI and are just exposed to the hype through the media.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Adjacent comment: Using the electrician analogy, AI is like one of those really cool gadgets you see on Temu that don't actually do half of what they claim and will probably burn the building down. Another analogy is AI are like Roomba's: they kinda work, take forever to finish, clog up easily, and are guaranteed to miss a lot of stuff.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I was a software consultant with "architect"* experience for the last 10 years of my career or whatever you want to call it. 50~80% of my job was basically saying the same thing their in house developers were saying. Maybe the other half was pushing tech stack upgrades (CVS -> SVN -> Git/Perforce ), (CGI to basically anything else), etc etc. My least favorite role was being a hatchet man, eg one of the Bobs from office space.

    Professionally I used a shit ton of analogies and metaphors. Absolute most effective was comparing new feature development to an electrician adding a new light or receptacle. You may find you need to upgrade the service panel (database or other services), it can take time to pull new lines and doing so can interfere with existing equipment. Finally you can only pull so many new cables through an existing building before you need to do necessary cleanups and rearrangements (eg refactoring). Failing to do so may lead to brown outs (crashes) or the entire building catching on fire (eg Microsoft Dumpster Fire 11). Last bit is you can help explain the complexity of a feature as top floor, mid level, or basement (eg "soonish").

    * Architect title/role was something I would try my best to bury. The companies that needed an Architect only figure that out when they discover MS Access DB isn't going to work /s but only a little bit. Also what the fuck is an "Architect", its not like any of our titles have any national standards.

    This video is kind of triggering my deep seated hatred of MBA's but if you ever want to explain to the normies what your job is like, "The Expert" https://youtu.be/BKorP55Aqvg is perfect.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I can relate. I've been doing consultant work and I always tried to avoid being pushed into the "architect" role. My background for over 25 years was software development and we had a lot of success with agile methods (doing it right is hard but viable and it produces quality software) My experience is that a good dev team does not need an "architect" to tells them what's best. But all of this is now gone anyway, or at least taking an extended break. At the moment no one is investing in development teams, and the prospect of being able to fire all the developers because AI can do their job now is making CEOs giddy everywhere. Not going to happen (and this should be obvious for anyone who can judge the quality of code or the effectiveness of processes in terms of reliability, quality, cost, performance etc.) but that doesn't stop them from trying.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    I framed the "AI" craze as parallel to self checkout kiosks. They were sold as the future and a way of getting rid of those pesky human workers. Reality is they're an open wound on the company. Unfortunately it will cost more money to get rid of them so they're still there.

    That's the difference with AI currently. Cancel your subscription, toggle it to off in your IDE, and its gone. I believe this is why they're trying to push "AI" everywhere, hoping it will stick somewhere.

    Otherwise I liked a well manged agile development process. Heck of a lot less stressful than water fall.

    edit: fax spalling erwor

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    That would definitely backfire. The best approach against any corporation is not to use them and let their name be forgotten, therefore, the shares losing value and becoming less and less attractive to investors

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    The most expensive plan gets you more tokens per unit of currency actually (10x cost for 20x usage), but it's pretty expensive and there's not actual guarantee that they're still losing money on your subscription in 2026 and as you pointed out, being able to show demand and MRR will get them more loans.

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  • [–] 160 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    Oh boy, I can't wait for my tax dollars to go to bailing them out instead of food and healthcare

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Don't worry, we can't bail them out this time. There's just not enough money, each bailout is exponentially bigger than the last one and this time the bubble is bigger than the rest of the global economy

    We'll probably destroy the global economy buying them just a few more months anyways though

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    It's also arguably the only thing propping up the American economy right now. They don't have anything to bail with, if the AI bubbles goes on fire. Their economy may well come tumbling down in short order.

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    pretty sure as soon as the strategic reserve is at minimum levels the gas prices will pop the economy just like in 08, looking at fuel prices, there is some consensus that the derivatives bubble and the economy was accelerated or contributed by the big spike then too, for what its worth here is a snippet from a longer conversation with claude the other day about the timing and effects....

    "The timing is on your side. Oil peaked around $147 in July 2008, but Lehman didn't collapse until September 15, and the bulk of the crash to the $30s happened over September–December, right on top of the acute credit panic. So the dominant driver of that specific collapse was the financial crisis — a credit freeze, a global trade contraction, forced deleveraging, and a stampede out of commodity speculation — not primarily consumers and firms conserving because gasoline got expensive. Presenting $147→$30s as a clean "high price destroyed demand" story conflates a financial/credit event with a price-response event, exactly as you say. Fair hit. The honest nuance is that they're entangled rather than fully separable. James Hamilton — probably the leading economist on oil-and-macro — argued in a 2009 Brookings paper that the oil spike itself was a meaningful contributor to the recession, not just a bystander: US miles driven and gasoline demand had already rolled over in late 2007 and early 2008, before Lehman, and the auto-heavy parts of the economy were buckling under fuel costs first. His stronger claim was that the oil shock alone might have produced a recession even without the financial crisis. That's a contested, minority-leaning view — the mainstream reading is still that the financial crisis dominated — but it means high oil wasn't innocent; it was one of the stressors loading an already over-levered system. So the two didn't just coincide, they reinforced each other. And here's the deeper point your question exposes, which is worth more than the correction itself: it's genuinely hard to find a clean example of price-alone demand destruction, because oil spikes and recessions almost always travel together. Spikes help cause recessions, and recessions crush oil demand, so they arrive as a package — you rarely get to observe the price-conservation channel in isolation. That entanglement is real, and I was papering over it. The cleaner illustration of the structural piece — the permanent kind of demand destruction — is the aftermath of the 1970s shocks. Global and especially US oil demand fell durably through the early 1980s and didn't recover for years: fuel economy standards, switching oil out of power generation and home heating, industrial efficiency. That's the sliver that sticks even after the economy recovers, and it's isolatable precisely because it persisted past the recovery — though even there the Volcker recession is a confounder, so it's not perfectly pure either. So let me refine the claim rather than abandon it. 2008 is a fine illustration that a demand collapse crashes the oil price, but a poor illustration that the high price alone caused the collapse. My underlying point — that $150–200 oil is self-limiting — still holds, but the mechanism is better stated as: high oil prices help trigger or deepen a recession, and/or a coincident recession does the demand-crushing, and it's that demand collapse (from whatever mix of causes) that breaks the price. Pure price-induced conservation is the slower, structural component I described last turn, not the fast circuit-breaker. The circuit-breaker is the recession — which, as you're implying, may have its own separate ignition source and just happens to also torch oil demand on the way down."

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Conversations with LLMs are absolutely worthless as a source of knowledge.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    they are great for doing a lot of web research into complex subjects, create an inventory of the most provelant discussions and historical precedents and form all that into an easy to read report. Since the llm is not the source of knowledge but the search engine, your comment is absolutely worthless as a coherent reply to my post

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    No, LLMs are not a search engine, that's not how they work. They process and regurgitate text, and even in such "simple" uses there is risk of hallucination.
    Your conversation with a LLM is absolutely worthless as a coherent reply to anything.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    LLM's are search engines by their nature, but on top of that they have search engines they reference, they have powerful grepping and search tools to iterate through those results come up with the prevailing theories and outliers and present that as an organized report to you, unless you can find something that is factually incorrect about my statement you are arguing against what you are seeing with your eyes which i dont quite get

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    LLM's are search engines by their nature, but on top of that they have search engines they reference, they have powerful grepping and search tools to iterate through those results come up with the prevailing theories and outliers and present that as an organized report to you[...]

    This is completely wrong, you need to read about how LLMs actually work.
    While they can give the appearance of searching, they are not at all search engines.
    What an LLM does when it processes a text is adjust some internal weights, nothing more.
    Whenever you ask it to search or summarize it generates text according to your query and its weights, not to the original text, and there is absolutely no guarantee that it will correctly do what you asked.
    They are a really interesting technology, but currently have zero usefulness as a search engine or summarizer, because the often omit actual results and/or hallucinate incorrect results.
    Seriously, read about it, if you are trusting LLM output as factual, you are absolutely being misled.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Better start preparing to grind the economy to a halt when they try it. This time any occupy Wall Street movements should be heavily armed and wearing plate carriers

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    [–] 85 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    How can we make them run out in mid-2026?

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I was under the impression that they had an extremely large amount of negative money.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    If Skyrim has taught me anything it's probably integer overflow

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Since their current cash wouldn't fit in a 32-bit integer that'd mean it's at least 64-bit. An integer underflow would require a debt of over 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 units-of-currency before it rolled over to positives.

    Man, this bubble is even bigger than I thought! /s

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Let the internet do what it does best, create all kinds of weird and unnecessary porn. That should do it.

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    [–] 52 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yes but you have forgotten about the technique used by the most skilled and intelligent company leaders to consistently outperform all predictions for years now: Corruption

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I will happy when this bubble bursts. OpenAI, Grok and several other companies offer nothing substantive and if they're burning cash and disrupting economies then just die already.

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    [+] 25 points 4 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago

    Unfortunately they would broadly be systems that need about 15kw, and as part of a board that won't work as discrete parts.

    So you get it, but you'll need a couple of 60 amp circuits to dedicate to it... Also you have no viable video out

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    I was hoping the same, but have since been told by several people that know more about it than I do that they are useless for gaming.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Getting those GPUs would be like getting a beat up horse. It's still a horse, just not much of a use anymore

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

    I still has some use, it’s just that it’s not as good but still useful for people who want to save money on gaming pc builds

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    OpenAI isn't running ChatGPT on RTX 5090's, they use data centre hardware like the nVidia NVL72, which are entirely useless for anyone else. You wouldn't even be able to boot it as it uses more power while idling than a residential home has access to, and up to 150kW at full load.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    up to 150kW at full load.

    That's the last generation. They're moving from Blackwell to Rubin chips now, and the 72-GPU Rubin servers use up to 230 kW.

    The typical residential connection in the U.S. has a 24 to 48 kW electrical connection. A block of houses might not have enough power infrastructure to power just one of these server racks.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    How can I help speed this up?

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

    Tokenmaxxing. They loose more money, especially on the subsidized plans.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    It will be a race which AI company holds out longest. All of them are making losses that no company can survive, and if they rise their prices enough to cover the costs, they will basically lose all their customers. Who will then struggle to hire the people back who still know how to do things without AI.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    I think they could significantly lower their costs if they turn their focus away from the race to "AGI." But, their valuations don't really make sense unless investors believe they will achieve AGI.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I was there when the "Neural Networks" idea started. They thought they could program NNs to achieve AGI. Now they think they can do it with LLMs. But LLMs are just parrots with a large dictionary. They won't reach that point, either. An LLM is way too much rooted in words to be able to think.

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  • [–] -5 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Recent models are quite good. Like gpt 5.6 sol. Even better than mythos 5.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    How is this a response to a comment about AGI?

    LLMs are not currently, nor ever will be, anything remotely resembling AGI. AGI is still entirely within the realm of science fiction, like teleportation or time travel.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    That's true. I'm just saying the models do get better and are quite impressive now.

    But whatever the term means. I know where AGI stands for, but the term "agi" is still very vague. You can't compare a machine llm model with the human brain.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    The "best" one I've tried is the latest Opus. I don't trust any of them to use for real work, so I mostly just play around with a local Qwen 3.6 27B or Deepseek v4 Flash. I have heard OpenAI's latest models produce less bloat than Anthropic's.

    I should say I do find LLMs useful as a kind of search agent (both web and large unfamiliar code bases). And GhidraMCP is pretty cool (maybe just because I don't have much experience with reverse engineering).

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Some big company would invest in openai to keep the bubble alive.

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  • [–] 41 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That's how they've been operating for years. They'll go public soon enough though, so your 401k will take the hit instead of the parasites on top.

    That's what the SpaceX IPO was about. They were listed on the NASDAQ way earlier than companies are normally allowed to be so the assholes up top could raid your retirement fund despite there being no path to profitability.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I can’t fathom how people actually contribute to a 401k when it’s run by Wall Street ghouls that stole everyone’s money 20 years ago and never suffered any consequences for it…

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    Because that’s the game. If you don’t play it, they continue to make more and more, while your money decreases in value due to inflation. Best you can do is try to be the bird in the rhino’s back, picking up fleas and scraps.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago
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