Flight instructor: "Do your best, lol."

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[–] 119 points 4 months ago (10 children)

Bertazzo had completed another lesson earlier that day without incident

Without… jumping to his death…? Sometimes this standard journalistic phrasing just kills me. I shouldn’t be laughing

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  • [–] [S] 114 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    "He's taught many lessons, and this is the first time this type of incident ever happened. Everyone was shocked, he'd never done that before."

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  • [–] 38 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    During the flight, Bertazzo allegedly told Rosario, “You know what to do” before removing his headset, arranging his belongings, taking off his seatbelt and exiting the aircraft.

    ... 'exiting the aircraft'.

    Yeah that's... accurate, but seems like perhaps an overly neutral verb to use.

    Yep, just stepping out for a bit, to get some air.

    Fuck me, this is an actual dark comedy skit, I can swear I've seen some skits from back in the day where more or less this is the plot.

    I guess all I can say is that I wish I could give Rosario a hug, what an awful thing to be forced into.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    "Without incident" means literally nothing remarkable happened. For example, if he had been behaving erratically or threatened suicide during the earlier flight, those would be incidents that should've tipped someone off that they should intervene and not let this guy back up.

    If there had been an incident, further investigation would be warranted to determine if this was preventable, and if so, who could have prevented it. The journalist is specifically highlighting that no one but the pilot appears to be at fault right now.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    There's also a huge issue in the aviation industry at least in the US where pilots do not disclose mental health concerns because it results in an immediate grounding - which means loss of pay.

    Instructors are often also new pilots who use teaching to build up flight hours until they can land a carrier job, and also have a boatload of debt from their training. So, they're effectively stuck with trying to just deal with it, or face bankruptcy.

    Xyla Foxlin is a youtuber and amateur pilot who had faced a mental health issue and was grounded for quite some time, she has a few videos talking about it.

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  • [–] 142 points 4 months ago (17 children)

    During the flight, Bertazzo allegedly told Rosario, “You know what to do” before removing his headset, arranging his belongings, taking off his seatbelt and exiting the aircraft.

    Importantly, the article also says she was trained, but still needed some hours with an instructor or pilot before being allowed to fly solo. He must have decided his other student that day wasn't ready but felt she'd be safe without him. Better than some suicidal pilots who have crashed the whole plane.

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  • [–] 108 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Landings are pretty much your first focus after basic air work, and you can solo in 15-20 hours typically. A full license is around 80 hours (at least here in Canada), and she had a ppl already.

    When i soloed my instructor was kind enough to get out of the plane while we were on the ground. What a horrible experience for this student.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    PPL minimum in Canada is 45 flight hours and it's common for students to solo in 10. "Full license" also doesn't really mean anything. There's a recreational pilot permit, private pilot license, and commercial pilot license, with various ratings/endorsements among those.

    An Argentinian PPL is likely different, given the article's mention of the pilot needing to still build time with an instructor. Though, it could've been a rental checkout of some sort.

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  • [–] 60 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    During the flight, Bertazzo allegedly told Rosario, “You know what to do” before removing his headset, arranging his belongings, taking off his seatbelt and exiting the aircraft.

    Instructor: (Encouragingly) "If you can handle this, Rosario, it'll all get easier from here on out. The most stressful moments are when you're just learning."

    Student: "Thanks, but I'm sure that..."

    Instructor: dives out plane door

    Student: ...

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, if I were an immortal, I would get a job as a flight instructor just to pull this prank.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    "Um, could you just fly over the airport for a minute? Great. Alright, see you later, maybe." And proceeds to step out of the plane so she can have her oh shit moment and he'll still be there to congratulate her when she lands.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    That's kinda strange. The process I'm familiar with, you get your student pilot license during training, then you get an endorsement from your instructor to solo. After you've had sufficient instructional and solo time, you take your practical test / check ride, and get your private license.

    Maybe this was a requirement of the flight school rather than a licensing requirement? Maybe she got her private license in gliders or balloons, and wasn't yet qualified to solo a powered aircraft?

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  • [+] -14 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    She had a private licence, so she was more than capable of flying solo.

    Did you actually read the article?

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Having a private license does not imply she was qualified to solo the aircraft she was in. If her private license was for hot air balloons or gliders, for example, her private license alone would not qualify her to solo a powered aircraft. Assuming Argentina's process is comparable to the US process, she would need a solo endorsement from a qualified instructor in her logbook before she would be considered capable of flying solo.

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  • [+] -16 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's a Cessna, a child could fly one.

    And it's probably the type she got her license in.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Agreed, but the article did expressly point out that she was required to have an instructor or a safety pilot, and that she was not actually qualified to solo in that aircraft.

    I have a private license. I am certainly not "more than capable of flying solo" in a Cessna 150: I am rated to fly hot air balloons. I am reasonably confident I could get a Cessna 150 on the ground safely, but that confidence alone does not make me "more than capable" of doing so.

    And it’s probably the type she got her license in.

    Based on the claims in the article, that is very unlikely. If she got her private license in it, she would be qualified to solo. But they explicitly claimed that she was not. It is likely that she is qualified in some other single-engine fixed-wing aircraft and just needs to be checked out in the 150. But the article does not specify, and we should not assume.

    If Argentina's licensing structure mirrors the US, she might have a private license in "weight-shift-control aircraft". She might be qualified to hang glide with a passenger, but that license would not make her "more than capable" of soloing in a 150.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Rosario already had a private pilot license but was still building up her flying hours, meaning she was required to fly with an instructor or safety pilot.

    She was required to specifically not fly solo due to her inexperience. Source: the article

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Do you realise how little journalists know about aviation? I wouldn't trust them to know which end of the plane goes forward.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Don't say "did you read the article?" when someone states something that's in the article if you're going to turn around and say "well, the article is wrong". It makes it sound like you didn't read the article.

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  • [–] 64 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    'Fuck me, you're a bad pilot. I'm going to take my chances out there'.

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  • [–] 121 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    If the student had a PPL, it's likely she was training with him (a commercial pilot) for her IL instrument license, the next step up from PPL. Means she was qualified to land in clear weather.

    He wasn't putting her in physical peril. But it's still a terrible mental burden to put on someone else.

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  • [–] 62 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    You never know how someone will react to something traumatizing like that. She could have had a panic attack and passed out.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Sure, but she's a trained pilot. You're literally drilled on a large number of emergency situations and procedures, with step by step checklists. The lead pilot dying isn't even the scary kind of emergency, in that situation the plane is still working fine. A sudden loss of airspeed, engine out, or a control surface unresponsive, those are all much scarier, and the pilot is expected to stay calm in all of those situations.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You’d hope. Still, I wouldn’t categorize any of those situations as not putting the pilot in physical peril.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Oh yeah, 100% those are straight up dangerous situations.

    You're just not allowed to freak out during those dangerous situations. It's like how "there's no crying in baseball", well "there's no freaking out in aviation".

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  • [+] -34 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 66 points 4 months ago*

    "According to reports, 22-year-old student pilot named Rosario already had a private pilot license but was still building up her flying hours, meaning she was required to fly with an instructor or safety pilot."

    Probably instrument rating

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago*

    Before you get any kind of full license or certificate you usually need to do a certain number of solo hours as a student where you literally fly alone as the pilot in command, before you have your license.

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    [–] 48 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Is the thumbnail photo of the instructor who killed himself?

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 40 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    That seems so morbid when the article is more focused on the student than the pilot.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    As it should be. Fuck that guy for traumatizing that poor unsuspecting person.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe it's better not to publically focus too much attention on why someone kills themselves. People on the edge with the same problems might be prompted to do the same. I dunno, I'm just guessing.

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  • [–] 48 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Categorized as "entertainment".

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  • [–] 255 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    What a selfish shitty thing to do to someone

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  • [–] 137 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    It's similar to people who end themselves by stepping in front of a truck or a train. It can be extremely traumatic to the driver.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    It can be extremely traumatic to the guy stepping in front of the vehicle as well!

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I'm driving home from a late work shift, 3am.

    My MF neighbor's adult kid had layed down in the road right past a blind curve hoping someone would run over him and kill him. Good thing my driveway was less than a couple hundred feet away and I was going slow enough to swerve around him.

    F'd em up for a bit and I didn't even kill him

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago* (11 children)

    I disagree. Leaving someone with trauma, versus leaving someone in a life or death situation is quite different I'd say.

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  • [–] 103 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    The similarity is involving people in the act and leaving them to deal with extreme trauma.

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  • [+] -40 points 4 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 46 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    This is the hill we're choosing? Really?

    It's a shitty thing to do to someone else, full stop.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I mean he's right about the suicide thing. Its the difference between traumatizing someone and taking them with you. Both are terrible, sure, no one is denying that. But one of these involves killing (or at least attempting to) somebody. So yes, murder is worse than giving someone PTSD.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    People in the cars in car accidents can die too y'know. Plus the driver doesn't necessarily know the person is committing suicide, making them think they're a murderer. The word that was used to compare the two was "similar", I truly don't see how anyone could argue they're dissimilar. No one said they were exactly equal.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    According to other people in this thread, she had at least enough flight experience that she should be able to land solo. So, the risk to her was from the trauma he inflicted, if it impeded her ability to land safely. Explaining it here actually makes it seem even more similar to the truck driver. It's entirely possible that if you hit a person with a truck, you'd freeze up or your mind would blank or you'd otherwise be unable to control yourself well and cause further accidents before you could stop safely.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    According to other people in this thread, she had...

    Fun way to admit you don't read articles.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Or, hear me out.... I read the article and that's how I knew that information wasn't in the article.

    I'm really conflicted about you. Part of me really likes people who encourage others to read the articles, but reading the articles isn't the only important thing. Understanding is also important.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The information was in the article. She had her pilots license and was doing the training only to maintain currency.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Okay, here is the relevant quote from the article:

    According to reports, 22-year-old student pilot named Rosario already had a private pilot license but was still building up her flying hours, meaning she was required to fly with an instructor or safety pilot.

    This is the only explanation of her previous experience in the article, and as a person with no experience flying at least, I found it confusing. In my mind, if you get a license, you shouldn't need an instructor with you. But regardless, I do think it's obvious that a person who was "still building up her flying hours" was not "doing the training only to maintain currency." So, I think this is evidence that you found the article's explanation confusing, too.

    Since I didn't understand the article's explanation, I deferred to the understanding of the commenters.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I get it, if it's like a regular driver's license you get the learners permit then have to train with an instructor or other person with their license.

    A private pilot's license is a full license. The only time you need to fly with an instructor or safety pilot is for currency (rarely) or to get a new rating like flying a specific model of aircraft or the permission to fly above clouds or at night etc ... In this case you have to "build your hours" before you get the new rating, then maintain currency on the rating.

    Maybe it was obvious to me because of familiarity with the subject, it certainly wasn't written to clearly communicate the message to the audience, that's for sure.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Expecting anything more from a dead person is kinda pointless though. It's like crying about spilled milk. Nothing you or anyone can do about it—dead people are not able to be guilty of anything. The only guilt a dead person can have is the one assigned by yourself. Not you specifically, but anyone who wants dead people to be guilty of something. Dead people are not able to change behavior or learn from their choices or bring justice to any further victims. Expecting that is a futile effort.

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  • [–] 36 points 4 months ago (1 child)
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