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Volkswagen Bans Security-Focused GrapheneOS Citing Security Reasons, Continues To Support Android 10 (www.autoevolution.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/automotive@discuss.tchncs.de
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[–] 6 points 4 months ago

The same will probably apply to all other Smartphone operating systems that do not support Google Remote Device Attestation, including non-Android systems with Android compatibility like the European alternative Sailfish OS.

Imho, mandatory Remote Device Attestation needs to be forbidden by (antitrust) law.

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    56 comments in c/android@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 41 points 4 months ago

    Hahahaha

    Fuck you VW, and your hypocrisy.

    Remember Dieselgate anyone?

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    [–] 131 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    updated its mobile apps to no longer support GrapheneOS

    This is not accurate. They updated the app to actively block GrapheneOS and other third-party Android builds.

    The distinction is critical; unsupported combinations often work.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    They updated the app to use the Play Integrity API, which GOS does not meet.

    Not that it means anything, of course. GOS is far more secure than Google's laughable excuse of a certification.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    They updated the app to use the "Play Integrity[sic] API," which actively blocks GOS.

    "Does not meet" implies there is something reasonable GOS could do to "fix" it, which untrue and misleading. The malice on Google's and Volkswagen's part is an important part of the story.

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  • [–] -5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Requiring a valid Play Integrity API response is a blanket enforcement on all custom ROMs, regardless of security measures.

    This was not a targeted attack on Graphene. GOS users just tend to be more vocal and....paranoid.

    “Does not meet” implies there is something reasonable GOS could do to “fix” it

    "Does not meet" has more than one meaning. Don't play dumb.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    I didn't say the attack was "targeted" only on GOS; you made that up yourself. But it is an attack, as opposed to something with a valid excuse.

    Also: it's only paranoia if they aren't actually out to get you.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Big companies have been trying to lock out custom ROMs for years, it's a giant cat and mouse game. The integrity bullshit thing is just another move. And the fascists in charge have been stripping regulations which is allowing these companies to make such bold moves.

    I think we're on the same page here. I apologize for coming off so harsh.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    That is until the official Motorola partnership happens with GoS and Motorola. It's the missing piece for integrity verification as of current listed requirements on Google's documentation. They needed to have first class support from a major OEM. Looking forward to seeing how Google will change that maliciously. This includes attestation.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    That is until the official Motorola partnership happens with GoS and Motorola. It’s the missing piece for integrity verification as of current listed requirements on Google’s documentation. They needed to have first class support from a major OEM. Looking forward to seeing how Google will change that maliciously. This includes attestation.

    Good point, I didn't think about that. It will be very interesting to see what happens.

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    • [–] 33 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    This should get interesting when motorola releases a phone with GrapheneOS on it.

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  • [–] 41 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    With the number of countries trying to crack down on privacy-focused phone OSs, I'm a little worried Motorola may get cold feet after talking to its lawyers. Has Motorola made any public statement promising these phones are coming?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Just presume it contains spyware my dude. Even if the company had the best intentions they'd just get infiltrated by private and state spies. But Motorola is literally run by the likes of the NSA, CIA and that it isn't a secret they are a US military infrastructure provider. They got so ingrained in the military that they had to split the company up but same same.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    But Motorola is literally run by the likes of the NSA, CIA and that it isn’t a secret they are a US military infrastructure provider. They got so ingrained in the military that they had to split the company up but same same.

    You're thinking of Motorola Solutions. It and Motorola Mobility, the smartphone company, haven't been related since 2011. The latter was spun off of the original Motorola as a completely different company over 15 years ago, and at this point is wholly owned subsidiary of Lenovo. The two may share a name, but that's about it.

    Motorola Solutions is the publicly-traded "true successor" to the original Motorola conglomerate, while Motorola Mobility is nothing more than an LLC underneath a much larger umbrella that is Lenovo and it's own Chinese parent holding company.

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    • [–] 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

    This is very odd, agree with the devs. Seems like a very aggressive action and with no reasoning behind it?

    I wonder what the real story is.. What had GrapheneOS enabled (or blocked) on user phones that got their executives so pissed they'd explicitly block GrapheneOS users from their apps?

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago*

    It's just stupid oversight, they switched to the Play Store API, which naturally excludes Graphene OS. But mind you this is the same managerial incompetence that brought us the lack of a Volks-Wagen (an affordable car that is) from Volkswagen, withdrawing partially from BEVs just as they get fully embraced and the sales start to accelerate, and of course who could forget the let's be honest fully C-suite ordered Diesel exhaust cheating.

    At this point, Volkswagen needs to be shut down and all middle~executive management needs to be prosecuted going back 20 or so years. They're all criminally incompetent and ruined thousands of livelihoods with their negligence.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    They changed something in the play integrity or one of those similar libraries. They're not explicitly targeting GrapheneOS, it's affecting some other platforms too. It was also affecting iPhones, but I think they've since fixed that.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe, the technical explanation is hopefully forthcoming. The article (which I will concede doesn't seem super professional) explicitly says "banned by Volkswagen", which is what I'm curious about.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's shitty journalism. The source is this https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/35949-volkswagen-app

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Thanks for that! Sounds like SEAT and Cupra (both have Volkswagen Group as their parent companies) are also affected - I wonder when this will spread to other Volkswagen & Porche-owned brands. What a terrible move for consumer choice/security/etc.

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    • [–] 51 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Companies that don't respect your privacy don't deserve your money either.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Problem is, thanks to capitalism, you're no longer choosing from dozens of companies. You're choosing between 2-3 conglomerates that own the dozens of brands. And all conglomerates will do the exact same shit, because they can, and you're left twiddling your thumbs, not choosing between auto manufacturers but between owning a vehicle or not.

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    • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I will never use an app to interface with a car

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    • [–] 14 points 4 months ago

    We need a ban on checking the manufacturer/supplier of a device/os instead of checking for APIs.

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    [–] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    VW is Audi too for those who don't know.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Volkswagen Auto Group (VAG) is huge. It contains:

    • SEAT
    • Skoda
    • Cupra
    • VW
    • Audi
    • Lamborghini
    • Bently
    • Ducati
    • Porsche
    • MAN
    • International
    • Scania

    And that’s just the vehicles.

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    • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Thats fine, Volkswagen is hereby banned from my life.

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    • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    That's fine, I wouldn't own a Volkswagen unless it was given to me.

    And then I'd sell it.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    The only VW I'll own is air-cooled, or equipped with the EA827 (diesel or gas, either is fine).

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yep, at least those had a reason for being what they are.

    Any other VW is garbage.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    TBF, I would love a Mk1 Rabbit GTI (what the Golf was called in the US for a while). Mostly so I can restore it and gift it to my dad. He had a Mk1 GTI long ago, I remember only bits and pieces of it since he sold it when I was little. But he absolutely loved that car.

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    • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    Was literally looking at a new VW the other day while getting some warranty work done (non VW). This news dropped the same day on my Lemmy feed and I said that takes VW out of the running.

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