Good. The way it should be. Housing is not wealth storage, it's a place to live.
Let's hope this fall spreads out of China.
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Sounds great, normalisation is required for many housing markets. Prices of a basic utility inflated due to speculation is the actual dangerous condition we are very comfortable with and viewed as security in many countries.
Unfortunately, in China housing is the only thing they're legally allowed lowed to "invest" in. There is no stock market, you can't own land, you can't buy land in foreign countries (legally). So when their market crashes 20% that's the equivalent of the NSDAQ, housing, and subsidies markets all crashing 20% in a day, which is like beginning great depression type stuff.
That's quite exactly the opposite of what's true actually.
The Beijing Stock Exchange and Shanghai Stock Exchange are in fact stock markets, and they can buy land legally in many countries (there's no Chinese law prohibiting it at least, local laws in some countries may ban foreigners from buying land). They (their rich, not common people) buy housing in other countries because it's viewed as a better and safer investment (also because buying a home in China is a 70 year lease)
...no? https://english.sse.com.cn/
there's also a bond market.
The Chinese government made this happen to help the lower classes with home ownership. So, maybe we could use our unique rights structure to convince those with the levers here, to pull them.
It peaked in 2021, so apparently prices have been declining for 5 years, and are still declining!!
The Chinese economy may be weird, but I don't get how prices can fall below what they were 20 years ago, when China is much richer today than they were back then? We were told for a long time China was in a huge housing bubble, but this is crazy!
This will guaranteed ruin many peoples economy for decades even for the rest of their lives. And many will be tied to their house because it's impossible to sell at a price that will clear the debt, so they can't afford to move.
In a normal market it's nice to own your own house, but a market like this, if you bought 5 years ago, it's a nightmare.
China was building housing like crazy, and companies kept the prices artificially inflated, even though that created literal ghost towns and a number of buildings had to be demolished due to safety reasons...
Now with the bubble popped, prices are resetting to market value, and since this means a new swathe of newly affordable housing, that availability drives prices down even further.
Think of it like this: you're sitting on 3 million tonnes of apples. You're selling each apple for $50. Nobody but a few idiots are buying them. Then you suddenly need the cash, and start dropping the prices - you have to go below market rates to offload all those apples to raise capital. And the raw amount of supply means you're going way under market prices, dragging other sellers with you.
Yes I know all that, bubbles result in stupid projects and poor quality, and banks stupidly believing growth will continue, so loaning to buy a house is easy. that's the same here. I know how bubbles work.
But China has had an economic growth rate on an average of 10% many years of that period, it's slowed down a bit in recent years but is still high.
But let's say 15 years with 10% growth, that means the economy has grown 4 times in 15 years!!
So it's crazy that prices fall back to less than when the economy was only 25% of what it is now.
Your description doesn't explain that.
The housing market is different in China. Most home are paid entirely at sale without a loan.
You’re also not truly buying the land, because private land ownership is illegal in China. Instead, you’re buying land usage rights for a long period (usually 70 years). Then it gets returned to the state (or the local farming collective, if you’re in a rural area that is managed locally) after your lease is up.
Basically, you can own your house, (the materials used to build it, the items inside of it, etc), but not the land it is built on. So after that 70 year lease is up, you (or more likely, your descendants) will need to either move off the land or sign a new land use contract with the applicable government (either local or state level).
And there’s always a chance that the government goes “actually we need to use that land for the public interest” and they can refuse to re-sign the lease. Maybe they want to turn it into a public park, or build a railway through the area, or use it for extra farmland. The same way the US government can seize an American’s land via eminent domain, the Chinese government can revoke a land use agreement.
But having an expected time the city can have the land back do helps with planning with development, or modernize run down buildings.
It being a lease means you also can very easily plan ahead your maintenance by funding it through the sale of the land upfront, not that much difference than collecting property tax except it is actually valued based on the land not the building on top of it.
It's better if land is not owned by an estate forever.
I wonder how many people on Lemmy want to move to China based on what they've heard about it on this collective network or in their own circles. How many of those people would be sorely disappointed if they did?
A lot of them come across as Ariel in Disney's The Little Mermaid. They have an incomplete understanding of China and also likely have legitimate reasons to not want to live where they are.
That's nice. When I was a kid my dad worked in China, and they confiscated our passports, so we literally had to flee the country.
So there's also that side of the coin.
My dad had a work visa for a company and when his contract was up they held his passport saying he was to continue working for the company.
So no. Not like ICE.
Also, we're talking about China, not how shit America is right now. Maybe try and stay on topic.
Because you're pretending like China is some fucking paradise when they literally tried to keep my family from leaving the fucking country?
We had to hide in a shipping freighter to get out of the country. But sure, go ahead and move to China, citizen.
If you don't want people to respond to your room temperature take on something don't post it.
I don't believe you.
In this particular thread that you commented on, the subject was I deed his father and China,

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