Not being able to see someone walking in front of you is a god given right.
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*In the US.
Sadly this is spreading everywhere. It's a race to the bottom because no one's adult enough to step in.
I don't get it who needs this car. I drove suzuki swift for 3 years and it was plenty of space gor 2 people and I'm 1.9m tall even. I don't even understand how people enjoy these giant cars - it's so uncomfortable, you can't even u-turn. And parking?
You don't even get the niceness of high seat because hoods are so giant. You take a van or something and at least you sit high with good visibility but thats not what people buy.
Truly weird.
people buy what they want to buy. auto-makers respond to demand. the sales numbers over the last few decade show people overwhelmingly prefer SUVs and trucks to traditional passenger sedans or vans.
folks have decided they prefer larger and more expensive vehicles, and systematically do not purchase smaller or cheaper vehicles.
I'm the only person I know who owns a small sedan. everyone else has mid-large SUVs and trucks. they endlessly complain the cars are too large, and too expensive to drive... but to refuse to purchase anything smaller or cheaper. if you point out you can get a loaded civic for 30K that does 40mpg+, and costs $30-40 to fill up, or similar, they basically start telling you how 'tiny' those cars are and they couldn't possible ever drive one because it's 'not safe' and 'doesn't have enough space'. when they buy a new car, they buy a 50K+ SUV or truck that gets 25mpg or less, and often complain they wish they'd been able to purchase a larger vehicle but it cost too much.
nobody is forcing anyone to purchase these cars. they choose to do it. lots of wonderful are still on the market, but folks do not want to buy them, large sedans have basically disappeared apart from luxury brands.
the RAV4 sells double the units of the corolla now. the last time they sold equal units was 2015, a decade ago. in 2005, the corolla had 4x the sales of the RAV5. in another decade, Toyota likely won't even make the Corolla anymore because the sales numbers are falling year over year to the point in 2035 the rav4 will sell 4x the Corolla.
personally I don't see any value to buying buying a large suv/truck, but most folks do.
They can't force people to buy SUVs, but when it's much more profitable for car companies from the USA to make SUVs, thanks to that EPA loophole, then they are going to do everything to make sure everyone "wants" SUVs.
nobody is forcing anyone to purchase these cars. they choose to do it.
Decades of propaganda advertisements telling people they need to buy an SUV, plus the (real or not) perceived danger of having a smaller car... that might not technically count as "manufactured consent", but imho it's not too far off.
People don't buy what they want to buy, they buy what the constant barrage of advertising tells them to buy. Starting with those most susceptible, then peer pressure gets added to the adverts, add in government lobbying and a list of other underhanded tricks, and bosh, job done.
E-cigs, wank tanks, social media, "designer products", the list goes on.
It's just such a fucking constant thing everywhere online, anything about America is just written like it's a worldwide thing because most Americans need to be told that the rest of the world exists for their broken brains to remember that.
It's so fucking tiring just seeing the never ending "here's a thing" that's very specifically about the US but posted everywhere and never titled or talked about like it's a US specific thing.
It's not just titles either, it's the articles those posts link to, the videos, the everything all the way that not a single person thought "oh, this is US specific and should probably be shared as such".
I have a F150 I use as a farm truck, and an old samurai. (The little 4x4, not the feudal warrior) The samurai is lifted and has larger tires on it, and the hood is still still only about waist-high. Much lower than the F150's hood which is almost chest high. (Im 6ft tall, that's ~183cm)
The F150 is honestly not very useful for hauling, because the sides of the bed are armpit high. Heavy things must be lifted a few feet to get up on the tailgate when its open. Most of the time anymore I use the samurai to pick up things like animal feed or fertilizer or other heavy bags of stuff, because it won't get stuck in the yard like the truck will, and its just more fun to drive, all 65 horsepower of it.
But the f150 is much more gender affirming to cismasc people, you misandrist cisphpbic piece of shit.
Lol. What a ridiculous comment. Unless it's a joke. Hard to tell.
Its ok though, we had to get rid of popup headlights because "oh no pedestrian safety". But classify fucking everything as a light truck and you can do whatever the fuck you want.
The best way to kill a person and get away with it in the US is to hit that person with a SUV when they are walking. A jury of lifted truck owners will return a not-guilty verdict. Even better if the target is on a bicycle, you’ll get a pat on the back by the judge.
I keep saying it, you don't need trucks. Maybe 1 out of a thousand. No, that isn't you.
And those who actually need them would be far better served by a VW Transporter with an aluminium bed.
This is true, but there's also a real lack of small pickups on the market. The fuckers just seem to be getting bigger and bigger. I used to have a Proton Jumbuck and it was really useful. Used it a lot for hauling wood and soil, it was small enough to get around and park easily in the city. I got rid of it eventually because it was so hard to find parts, shame, it was a handy little machine.
It’s super frustrating because if you talk to anyone in a blue collar or rural area they all tell you they wish they still made small trucks. The manufacturers keep upping the size and cost adding shit nobody even asked for.
The increased size is to flout emissions regulations. Costs (aside from greed) is due to increased requirements from the NHTSA.
the Ford Maverick has been on the market for 5 years now.
The F150 sold 150K units, the F-series sold 830K units, last year.
Folks overwhelmingly choose larger cars even when smaller options are available.
Whether rightly or wrongly, without a body on frame construction they were never really trying to sell that to traditional truck consumers.
A front wheel drive unibody "truck" is a slap in the face to the small trucks of old. A dent in the bed and you either total it or replace a rear tire ever 6 months do to unfixable alignment issues.
right, so you buy a f150 instead and bitch there are no small trucks.
lose lose
you can go buy a used small body on frame truck. just expect to pay 30-40K for one, because they are highly desirable.
You're right it's a lose lose. Personally I'm in the camp of not wasting money on a poorly thought out truck (maverick) and just go rent one for the 1 time in 5 years I'll need a bed. I had a big truck that was just enough to tow my RV (lived full time to save money for a home) and now that I don't live in an RV full time that bitch was sold. Hello New world of tiny EV. :)
And out of the people who do need them, vans are still a much better way to go for many of them. Vans which have at least a margainally better field of view with their short, sloped hoods.
I have a large family and we drive a Transit 350 van.
One day we needed to move a pair of beds and mattresses. We asked my father in law to help us since he has a F150. But it soon became apparent how much more we could fit in the van (with the two back seats removed) than we could fit in the truck, which couldn’t even fit one mattress in the truckbed without hanging out the back of the tailgate.
From what I’ve seen my van is far superior to a truck in almost every need I’ve had. It can carry more stuff and it can do so in the rain keeping the cargo dry.
The one thing a truck could do that my van can’t is pick up a scoop of mulch or gravel dumped from a loader.
bro pulling up with the sprinter, how many bitches you fit in there?
My grandmother used to have a GMC Safari and yea, you’re absolutely right. If someone offered their truck for free to help me move I’d still pay for a U-Haul and I have less than zero money. They’re fucking worthless unless what you’re dragging around is a fifth-wheel so you literally need the special towing connection in the bed. Even the tow-trucks and stuff could be cab-over-engine but we don’t live in sanity land.
I know someone who insists that a pickup truck is more practical and her example is "you can lift a bookshelf over the side of a pickup truck instead of having to put it in the back like a van". Apparently it's more practical to lift something like 4 feet off the ground to the side of a pickup truck bed instead of like 1 foot to the floor of a van
Similarly, I know people who bought F-150s for motorycles after going to the track only one time. We worked with actual consistent track-goers who each had vans. I used one of theirs to move my bike to the shop, and it was really funny watching them struggle with a small Ninja 250.
People with truck brain are so fuckin’ stupid.
And it's not just the field of view, it's how the impact occurs. On a lower, sloped hood you bounce over the bonnet instead of a head-on bang with a higher, vertical, one.
Tell that to every dipshit in the US South...light kit, brush guard, spray in liner, knotted tires, extra fancy box in the back, and a pristine winch. The dirtiest it's ever gotten is when it rains
BUT I HAVE TA TOW MAH BOAT.
The problem is, most people can only afford one vehicle (per adult, sometimes household) as such, they shop for something that will meet their edge cases and not their “90% of the times” cars. Annoyingly is also why you see hesitation for EVs.
Rather than saying “I can just rent a truck for the 1 day a year I need haul something” (and most likely would be cheaper), they think “well what if I need to haul something? Then what?”
Not saying that’s right, but edge cases are usually what drives their decisions.
1 out of a 1000? Don't be silly, way more people than that have inferiority complex.
One of the guys in my police academy class would rib me for being less of a man because I didn't drive a truck.
A couple months later, he would go on to commit a felony on duty in front of a half dozen of his peers, including me. Nobody bothered to report him but me, even after we had a meeting about someone from a neighboring agency doing nearly the exact same thing that had been fired and arrested for it. Being a brand new deputy, I thought it was an integrity test so I was more than willing to report it. IA dropped the case.
In hindsight, that was a clue I should've started applying elsewhere or quit, but I had three more years to put in before I wouldn't have to pay back my academy pay, not to mention I naively trusted there was some other interpretation of what happened I hadn't considered that the agency's brass and legal team had; I wasn't about to be the Apprentice telling the Master he's full of shit.
Years later they'd fire me for some complete BS. He still works there as far as I know, and the US Army promoted him to Captain.
Ban individual owned large vehicles. Force them to be licensed under a business, or force a rental agreement with extra tax and duration limits.
it isn't about need. it's about want.
no doubt you own many things other people don't think you need, but you think you do.
I saw a chart that showed a much stronger correlation with smart phones
I don't think that we see the same increase in pedestrian fatalities in other countries though, which do have smart phones but do not have massive personal trucks.
In Europe:

In the US:

Not exactly the same years, of course, and comparing data sets is tricky.
The minima at 2009-2010 is absurdly clear though. You undid 20 years of progress in about 10 years. I'm honestly shocked - what happened in 2009 to cause this? I would think increasing truck sizes would cause a much more shallow minima, since truck sizes don't suddenly increase from one year to the next.
The minima at 2009-2010 is absurdly clear though. You undid 20 years of progress in about 10 years. I’m honestly shocked - what happened in 2009 to cause this?
Dumb as fuck EPA emissions standards
But the US Department of Transportation was concerned that smaller vehicles are less safe in the event of an accident, and this department oversees Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards. Hence, the agency discouraged manufacturers from reducing vehicle size to meet the standards by ensuring that the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards require higher fuel economy for smaller vehicles than for larger vehicles.
...
Since the adoption of size-based standards in 2012, new vehicles have been getting larger, and sales have shifted from cars to light trucks. Between 2011 and 2022, the average vehicle footprint (roughly, the area defined by the four wheels) increased by about 4 percent, and the share of cars in total sales dropped from about 65 percent to 40 percent. In the GHG standards that EPA proposed in April this year, the agency notes that the increasing size and shift from cars to trucks has increased average emissions rates by about 10 percent.
The rise of smartphones with instant messengers might have contributed to that.
Texting and driving is a thing...
...which triggers a certain kind of rage/hate in me when I spot people doing that, which I usually do several times each day.
You may be right, but as with the trucks, I would expect a much less sharp minima: Smartphone and instant messaging adoption didn't happen all at once, but from this graph we see that we're going from a substantial year-on-year decrease directly to a large year-on-year increase. A change that is gradually adopted over the course of several years can't really cause that kind of effect.
That also happens in Europe and yet you don't see a similar increase in pedestrian deaths.
What did not happen in Europe but did in the US during that time frame was the invasion of roads by personal tanks.
So many other variables though. European cities are designed so much better for pedestrians and cyclists. I’d argue that the driving standards are also higher in a lot of areas. Speeds often slower too since infrastructure is designed for mixed use. In North America the actual design of most roads is almost hostile to pedestrians. It’s clearly a mix a factors.
Such differences remained steady during that time frame, so whilst they explain the actual baseline levels, they don't explain the change in trend that happened in the US but not in Europe.
(What you suggest would only make sense if in 2009 the road infrastructure design, driving standards and average speeds became much worse in the US and kept getting worse, something not really supported by observation of those things)
The most logical conclusion is that something changed in one place that did not change in the other.
The biggest change that happened in the US but not in Europe in that time frame was the in the US the prevalence and size of light trucks increased massivelly but not at all in Europe. Further, as we see in this study such vehicles are far more dangerous to pedestrians, so this specific change that happens in one geographical zone but not the other does seem to be the most likely explanation. Certainly this is a lot more logical than an increase in mobile phone use whilst driving (as that also happened in Europe) or the better road conditions in Europe vs the US (as that didn't change even though the rate of pedestrian deaths in the US reversed its trend and started climbing up whilst in Europe it remained on a trend of slowing falling down)
Road speed has definitely increased since then. Cars are more powerful than ever and easier to drive blindly.
Road conditions have also changed. Europe has invested heavily in well designed infrastructure with a clearly stated goal of reducing road deaths.
Large vehicles in North America are clearly a major part of the problem but trying to be this reductionist seems pretty weird.
Road speed has definitely increased since 2009 exactly and by so much that the trend of falling pedestrian deaths in the US completelly turned around!????
Also I've actually lived in 3 countries of Europe since 2009 and beyond a handful of larger cities (such as Paris) closing a handful of streets and making them pedestrian only, pedestrian infrastructure has barelly improved in that period.
Absolutelly, Europe invested in much better infrastructure than the US, especially for pedestrians and cyclists, but that long predates 2009 - in fact Europe always had much more pedestrian-friendly infrastructure than the US, even in the most car friendly countries in Europe.
Methinks you're trying too to exculpate the huge increase in average car size in the US.
How do you get to that conclusion? I clearly state I believe it to be a major factor. I just don’t get why this place is so vehemently against confounding variables. It reads the same as US propaganda but opposite. Yeah, trucks bad, US bad. It’s just clearly not so simple. The US is huge and a rural town and major city have little in common. The trend is everywhere.
You can believe what you want but data from the ETSC (European Transport Safety Council) and ERSO (European Road Safety Observatory) is pretty clear. Reducing it to little cars is really slighting what Europe has accomplished. Car size is important but there has been so much more done. Little things like moving money from heavy vehicle corridors to raised sidewalks have both immediate (like visibility of pedestrians) and emergent effects (like driving culture changes).
This place is getting worse than Reddit.
Why not both?
If phones are causing more collisions... then bigger vehicles have more kinetic energy, hence more deaths...
Thats not how kinetic energy works, no pedestrian is heavy enough to stop any car, small or large.
Bigger in the context of vehicles means not only heavier, but also a higher point of impact. It could be the difference between getting hit in the legs vs the torso. Or the difference between rolling onto the hood vs knocked down and run over.
A higher kinetic energy means the vehicle takes longer to stop from the same speed (that's true even with better brakes and better tires, because if you try to reduce the energy faster than a certain rate the vehicle just starts skidding) which in turn means collisions with pedestrians happen at a higher speed, which is more deadly.
I couldn't find a page of info for specifically light trucks, but here's one for trucks.
This is not to deny the effect of higher fronts and hence lower driver visibility, just to point out that kinetic energy too matters.
Thats not how kinetic energy works
Force= Mass X Acceleration, so any any given speed, more mass nets more force. More force = more trauma.
Kinetic energy is related to mass and the square of velocity
A heavier vehicle absolutely has more killing power against a pedestrian...
You're right. The mass of the pedestrian makes no difference... any vehicle is going to turn them into a red mist
You have it backwards. Larger vehicles of course have more energy, but pedestrians are too light for that to make a difference.
If you get hit by an oil tanker ship going ~1 kmh, that ship has orders of magnitude more kinetic energy than a car at highway speed, yet, unless theres a wall or something, the ship will merely push you harmlessly aside.
Its about the manner of delivery, not the vehicles energy.
Larger cars are more dangerous because they hit you higher up, where you have more vital organs.
The danger from higher kinetic energy comes from the longer break distance and time to stop: given the same driver reaction time and distance to the pedestrian, a heavier vehicle will take longer to break to a stop and thus have a higher velocity when it collides with that pedestrian than a lighter vehicle.
This is not to deny the difference that a higher front makes, just pointing out that kinetic energy does in fact make a difference, though of course as you point out not because of any "higher energy transmission on collision" or such, but rather indirectly because the vehicle is more likely to collide at a higher speed because it takes longer to break.
I couldn't find info on this for explicitly for light trucks, but here's some for trucks.
The kinetic energy difference between a 180 pound person and a 3,000 pound vehicle or a 6,000 pound vehicle is completely irrelevant. The height of impact from a truck or suv is what makes it worse.
Either way, it's surely more like 90% cell phones distracting drivers than it is vehicle type.
A 3,000 punt vehicle will have a lot less braking distance than a 6,000 pound one.
A big vehicle like that has a lot more horizontal blind spot, it's been a major thing with drivers of those monstrosities literally not seeing kids, people in wheelchairs etc.
Most people are out of their depths with such big vehicles in many ways, they should require a specific license because it's such a different thing compared to a normal sized car in so many ways.
It's a real bad combination of way to big cars with all the negatives + phone and in car touch screen use. It's absolutely not 90% either of them, it's a combination.
This is also mostly American, no other country has cars like that in those numbers (per capita), and Americans also have a higher phone usage while driving percentage than most of the world.
I've been an EMT and firefighter for nearly 20 years, buddy. I'm on scene at these vehicle crashes. The drivers are usually so shaken by what's happened that they usually just straight up tell the truth if it to me. It's cell phones. It's almost always cell phones. "Texting spouse. Reading a text. Dropped my phone and was reaching for it. Changing songs on my phone. Just looked down at my phone for a moment. ".
I'm literally there and have seen the change for 20 years. Personally watched it. It's cell phones. Not your little opinion based on nothing but your flawed thoughts.
It's also almost never braking distance. All the bad wrecks and fatalities tend to never have much distance at all showing they applied brakes before contact. Bigger issue with suvs and trucks (aside from higher impact point I mentioned to begin with) in crashes is that they aren't as stable. Easier to roll over or lose control of them after jerking the steering wheel.
I completely agree about the cause of the accident, but there is actually a big correlation between vehicle height and accident mortality, the NYT published this report recently about it.
So it seems @9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works was actually correct and it's both.
The instant messengers on the smart phones might have played a critical role. Whatsapp started in 2009.
Texting and driving is a thing, so there's a way to derive causation and not only correlation from that.
...it triggers a certain kind of rage/hate in me when I spot people texting and driving, which I usually do several times each day.



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