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No thanks, Honey isn't vegan (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 days ago by to c/memes@sopuli.xyz
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[–] 0 points 1 day ago* (9 children)

Wait, how is honey not vegan?

It's literally processed nectar! Sure, the processing is done by bees, but they're not hurt in any way whatsoever and they seem happy (inasmuch as an insect that sometimes seems to enjoy playing with balls for no practical purpose can be happy) with the arrangement...

I mean, I practically live on cheese, but I could see arguments for dairy products not being vegan given industrial farming and the whole veal thing (which is admittedly quite monstrous), but honey?

Bees are clearly where they want to be and consider the whole deal worth the hassle... they have a built-in way to show they are (sufficiently) unhappy... and a swarm that doesn't like its current domicile or the whole collecting excess honey deal can just leave if it wants to, and sometimes do...

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  • [–] 5 points 22 hours ago (5 children)

    I was going to joke about "Milk is simply processed grass" but then you said

    I practically live on cheese, but I could see arguments for dairy products not being vegan

    Brother, cheese is not vegan. Are you confusing it with vegetarian? Vegan = no animal derived product. Eggs, milk, wool, etc. are not allowed.

    That said "is honey vegan" is debated and there isn't really one consensus. Some vegans allow it, others don't. The main issue is that most honeys are not harvested in ethical ways & their apiaries are not set in a way to benefit the surrounding ecology.

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  • [–] 1 point 21 hours ago (4 children)

    If we're going to consider surrounding ecology when determining if something is or isn't vegan, I have some bad news about vegetables.

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  • [–] 2 points 19 hours ago (1 child)

    Wrong

    Veganism is against the exploitation of animals as far as possible and practicable. It is possible and practicable to stop breeding them into existence to murder them. You have to grow 10x the amount of plants to feed animals to eat it than to just eat the soy beans yourself.

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  • [–] 1 point 13 hours ago*

    I think you've read more into my reply than there is. The person I was responding to mentions the effect modern apiaries have on local ecology. If that is a factor you consider when determining if something is/isn't vegan, that would make many vegetables and plant products also not vegan. Personally, I don't see a big difference between destroying the environment of Oragutans so I can grow Quinoa and shooting that same orangutan or* somehow exploiting said oragutan for profit. I think, ultimately, I wonder if real veganism is even possible under capitalism.

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  • [–] 2 points 20 hours ago (1 child)

    I mean I'm not even vegetarian so idk what you want me to say.

    Are you implying a produce based diet is worse for the ecosystem than one inclusive of meat? Because I have some bad news for you

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago

    My parents-in-law keep bees as a hobby. They have a few hives scattered around a forest area, take a couple of jars a year. Personally I have absolutely no issue with that. I don't really care that much about the general publics labelling.

    For me the problem arises with the monstrous factories that are processing these animals and their products, it's neither sustainable, healthy or morally sound. I think it's likely that bees gets the same horrible treatment as all other animals in when it comes to mass production.

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  • [–] 2 points 19 hours ago*

    Vegans don't eat animal products. Bees are an animal. You don't actually have any knowledge or understanding of the inner feelings of bees or know where they want to be and they are quite literally forced into hives where all their honey is taken from them and replaced with sugar. Agricultural and honey bees are quite literally an invasive species.

    Cheese and dairy products are not vegan. They forcibly inseminate and kill cows to make it. What do you think they do with the male calves? What do you think they do with the cows when they're done giving birth and stop producing milk?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    It touches animals. Same way animal tested products are not vegan. It's about being pro animals and not using them... which begs the question, what about horse ridding? Is that against veganism?

    I got to ask this next time I get...

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