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Israel is ecstatic. (lemmy.ml)
submitted 5 days ago by to c/ManufacturingConsent@lemmy.ml
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A tweet by Abubaker Abed saying: "It took American people less than two years to completely whitewash the Democrats' facilitation of the Gaza genocide and put them back in power. How quickly people forget is beyond me. The world is too scary. Out of the frying pan into the fire... Israel is ecstatic."
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[–] 33 points 5 days ago (27 children)

I’m no lover of Democrats but what exactly, in your mind, should have happened during this election?

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  • [–] 19 points 5 days ago (12 children)

    No election is going to ever have an outcome that addresses climate change on the timescale that it's going to affect us so who the fuck cares? Society will collapse and the American political system with it. And you know this is coming but you're still putting all of your thoughts and energy into the direction of that system. The framing of your question is the problem. The thing that should have happened 'during this election' (read: the last 18 months and only that few because it was a midterm) was developing militant dual power instiutions so that when that breakdown happens we aren't swept away in the default fascist renewal of capitalism.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago (11 children)

    I agree, proper change sure as shit isn't coming from the Dems, but you can still try to pick the lesser of 2 evils in the meantime.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (10 children)

    Why waste your time on a party that is going to perpetuate the problem, when there are other parties that are fighting against the problem.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 days ago (9 children)

    I'm not saying campaign for them or support them in any way. Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time. Organize a protest, join a union, burn a billionaire at a stake.

    Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power bc of your weird ass election system. If it was a parliamentary system sure, but not with whatever you got.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (8 children)

    Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time.

    I'm not sure that's useful. The Dems are a short-term subtraction of harm, but a long-term multiplication of harm. When they get elected, the fascist system keeps getting built out, but it's all hidden away so that it's not so obvious.

    Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power...

    Yeah, that's what I want. I dont want the Dems to have power. Just like I don't want the Republicans to have power.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 days ago (7 children)

    I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold. And at least I can't do that with good conscience, because I'm a white cis man, I'd be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can't gamble the safety of other groups like that.

    I'm not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 days ago (6 children)

    I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold.

    I don't know where you got that reasoning, I never said it.

    I’m a white cis man, I’d be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can’t gamble the safety of other groups like that.

    As a fellow white cis man, not only are you gambling with the safety of other groups by voting for the Democrats, you are losing that gamble on a daily basis. When the Dems have been in power, they've been kidnapping, torturing, mass deporting, etc marginalized people all the time. They also help and enable the Republicans. They aren't fighting against the Republicans, they are on the same team, building out the same system.

    I’m not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

    Sure, but know that the Democrats stand side-by-side with the Republicans to stop that type of action from being successful.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (5 children)

    I know the Dems suck, I just don't think you'll be able to vote your way out of this shit.

    But I'm not American, so idk the intricacies of your system. What would you say is the best way to get away from the 2 party system?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago* (4 children)

    I know the Dems suck, I just don’t think you’ll be able to vote your way out of this shit.

    Oh, yeah, 100%. I'm not saying voting is all you should do at all.

    But I’m not American, so idk the intricacies of your system. What would you say is the best way to get away from the 2 party system?

    🔥 🍾 🔥

    It's going to take a revolution

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    So who would you vote for?

    Republicans are currently leaning pretty heavily towards fascism, and Dems still make things worse over time. But other parties won't get any seats. So who would you vote?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

    I generally vote Green, but, as little as I know about them, PSL looks OK too.

    But other parties won’t get any seats.

    I don't fight against fascism and it's supporters because I think I'm going to win, I fight against fascism and it's supporters because I think it's evil.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Fair enough. I guess I was too polarized from my time on reddit to consider anyone voting something else. Thanks for giving me perspective

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    No worries, I used to support the Democrats! But that was before I started actually paying attention to politics and following the news. As soon as I did, it became clear to me that they were just wolves in sheep's clothing, and are almost as bad as the Repblicans.

    Not knowing things is fine, as it gives you a chance to learn and grow. It's chosing what to do with the new information that matters.

    Online dialogue tends to disuade from that, and often pushes towards polarization. I apologize if I was overly polarized, as I often get attacked from people who refute information, instead of internalizing it.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago* (2 children)

    Every election here is a missed opportunity to put in an actual resistance to take the system down. People make a million excuses on why we all need to settle for the worst or second worst candidate, and that's who we end up with, every time, because the population talked themselves into it.

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  • [+] [S] -6 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    I prefer dumb right-wingers over intelligent ones.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 days ago (9 children)

    dump is always worse. It is chaotic, self destructive and pulls everything and everyone further down more quickly.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago* (8 children)

    You are making a clear case for his being allowed to continue vandalizing the american empire

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago

    fair point. I think however that the trajectory the USA is on would not have changed significantly even with the Democrats in power and the world would have maybe avoided at least a few tragedies. Not the big one in Palestine, obviously. Everyone seems to be on board with that one. But i don't know, to be honest with you. I just hope that that whole shit is over sooner rather than later ...

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  • [–] -4 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    The downside is that, when the american empire flails, it hurts others too :(

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

    That's true, a wounded animal lashes out. But these death throes, as dramatic as they are, are still so much less deadly than business as usual. It's like the last set of nazis: putting them down did require incredible violence, but nowhere near as much violence as they would have visited on the world otherwise.

    I won't lie about the situation, the capitalism is late-stage and all over our body. Our only choices are the pain of surgery or an agonizing death by cancer.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Absolutely. I still want to see America go down, but it will have negative external consequences.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 child)

    I worry about it too, how to help people and how to prepare. I hope that the American state's terminal belligerence can force enough of the rest of the world into cooperation against it to create the kind of framework we need to deal with the worst of climate collapse and maybe nurse our planet to better health. But yeah, with the bottomless depravity we know the empire is capable of, you'd be crazy not to be worried. It can be paralyzing when you try to take in the scale of the threat, and in these times I find refuge in trying to build with what few real life comrades I have.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    I have those hopes and fears too. I also hope that the rest of the world can contain and mitigate our damage, but I also don't think anyone is coming to save us. It's going to be up to us to save ourselves.

    I am optimistic that we can do that, even though it will be painful

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