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Lemmy has a sexism problem (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 1 week ago by to c/feminism@lemmy.world
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I couldn't believe my eyes seeing this advice to teach young boys to hit girls so as to restore the boys' self esteem and pride.

This is the kind of toxic belief that shouldn't be allowed to proliferate here and yet is embraced with open arms by other users.

That boys can only regain their pride and self esteem by hitting girls leads directly to more violence against women and girls.

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[–] [S] 5 points 1 week ago (27 children)

I think teaching boys to react with violence is part of upholding the patriarchy and feeds directly into sexism.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago

    Do you think the same about teaching girls self defence? Genuinely curious. Ive gleaned from the context that these are 4 year olds so the whole conversation is a little dumb, but if it was a 7 year old girl getting hit by a boy would teaching her to hit back be wrong? What if it was a girl being bullied by a girl? Violence should be a last resort in conflict resolution but there definitely is a time for the application of violence in defense of yours or others safety.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (19 children)

    What would you advocate for in this situation? Only girls are allowed to defend themselves? neither can?

    Teaching children that, while they should never start the violence, the use of proportional, controlled, violence to defend themselves is reasonable.

    A girl should be taught that a boy (or girl) hitting them, can be responded to in kind, if they've not got another reasonable option. The reverse also applies. Up until puberty, the ability to fight is fairly symmetrical.

    I suspect the hidden context is key.

    Boys are often taught Never hit a girl. If they are then repeatedly attacked by a girl, then they can end up in a no win situation. Particularly at 4, this can be very black and white. That unacknowledged helplessness is a classic precursor to later bullying, and needs to be nipped in the bud.

    The use of proportional violence is actually reasonable at times. A hard shove to get them clear, and so unable to hit you. Even just active blocking (hitting their limbs away). It doesn't matter the gender of those involved.

    I'm an advocate of children (boys and girls) doing martial arts. It builds confidence and body control. It also teaches quick proportional defence. Those combine to both keep them safe, and let them protect others.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 6 days ago (18 children)

    Saying boys shouldn’t be taught to hit totally means girls are allowed to hit all the time! /s

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (17 children)

    Neither should, both can and do.

    However, from a lot of parents, with boys, the "do NOT hit girls" message is massively amplified.

    Both genders will break the rules, to some extent. When a boy does it to them, by hitting, they can respond, if required. A girl who does the same can find a convenient physical and emotional punching bag, when the "do not hit girls" training ends up locking up their defensive response.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 6 days ago (16 children)

    4-5 year olds shouldn’t be taught to hit back at all.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (15 children)

    Hitting back can include shoving away, and defensive blocks.

    My minion was learning to use and moderate themselves at around that age. They started martial arts not long after. I would never punish or argue against proportionate self defense. Even if it's just to signal that it's not appropriate play, and an adult's attention is needed ASAP.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 6 days ago* (14 children)

    I don't know why you're trying to argue with me and nitpick about how society views boys and girls hitting differently.

    This comment is pushing that this little boy can regain his self-esteem and pride by hitting this little girl. And that comment was pretty highly upvoted when I came across it.

    That's it. That's the issue. The users on this site love to glorify men and boys using violence against women and girls.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (13 children)

    I read it as an adult trying to decide how to deal with a little girl assaulting their son. The first mover violence seems to have come from a girl, and was met, ineffectively with passivity.

    How should a boy respond to being assaulted by a girl?

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 6 days ago (12 children)

    How should a boy respond to being assaulted by a girl?

    These are 4-5 year old children.

    I'm not taking this lame ass bait.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (10 children)

    Your complaining about the advice to that question. I actually wanted to know what you thought they should do.

    I've been through that age of parenting. That's the age where those discussions should start. If you don't have them, then the child will fill in the gaps best they can. Their conclusions can vary wildly from what we would call reasonable, when that happens.

    I taught them that they were allowed to block and to push the other child away, if they didn't stop. They were then expected to immediately get an adult involved. Punching and kicking weren't allowed.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 6 days ago (8 children)

    You’re acting like I’m not a parent as well lol

    I’m not taking the bait. 4-5 year olds are very capable of learning conflict resolution that doesn’t involve hitting back to regain pride.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    So what did you teach them?

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 6 days ago (6 children)

    4-5 year olds are very capable of learning conflict resolution

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    And how does that look when another child is trying to hit them?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 6 days ago (4 children)

    Time outs, apologies, talking about treating others like you want to be treated, consistency and patience.

    I thought you were a parent? You don't know what teaching children conflict resolution looks like?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    You seem to be doging the point of the question. That's how you stop them hitting unprovoked, or bullying etc. What if it's the other way around? They are the victim of it, not the instigator.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

    What if it’s the other way around? They are the victim of it, not the instigator.

    I certainly won't teach them to create a new victim out of some self-righteous sense of retributive justice.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Neither would I. That's obviously stupid.

    However, you still didn't answer the core question. What would you teach them?

    I'm beginning to suspect you don't actually have a good answer. You just wanted something to be outraged at.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    Is it sexist to suggest the answer should be different depending on the gender of the people involved?

    I can see trying to emphasize de escalation and self defense that isn't just hitting back harder, but I don't think the gender of the children involved should change the answer.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    My statement about teaching boys doesn’t mean girls should be taught to meet violence with violence in their stead. They’re not mutually exclusive statements.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (1 child)

    Just referring to both sides, if the bully is a boy or a girl, the response should be similar.

    Certainly agree that the advice emphasizes the value of violence rather than accepting it as a last resort and measured response, but I'm not so sure it is a sexist sentiment, as could easily see that comment going the same way if it were two boys or two girls or the genders reversed.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Especially because personalities and habits are formed directly because of what they learn, directly and indirectly, in years 0-6 or 7. Teaching them to hit at all in these years is how domestic abusers happen.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago

    Knowing how, and using it aggressively are very different things.

    It's cliche, but people often become what they wanted/needed growing up. If you leave someone powerless, they often try and claw back some power, often in a similar way to what they suffered. Someone who is hit by someone they love will often lash out in the same way against others including those they "love". The school bully is/was often the victim of bullying elsewhere.

    Knowing how to use force to defend yourself, and using it to get your way are 2 VERY different things, mentally. Martial arts etc also teach a centering of thought. You're not lashing out with emotion. You're methodically stopping a situation that is unacceptable.

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