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[–] 41 points 3 months ago* (22 children)

Yay!

Be better if it was free though.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I could see it being justified as a progressive measure to increase capacity. Lower the prices , increase demand and get more people on the bus paying fares that you can use to expand service to meet the new demand. Once the infrastructure is built to handle the increased demand then you can make it free.

    Vs. if you make it free right away demand spikes with no resources to increase capacity.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Free would definitely be better, but requires solving other problems in lockstep. E.g. homeless people using the busses as a place to exist/stay warm. It disrupts the bus as a function.

    A small (deliberately) token fee gets the best compromise. It's akin to charging 10p for a plastic bag. For most people 10p isn't enough to be problematic, in the grand scheme of things. It does massively reduce frivolous usage.

    I would prefer pushing it down to £1 return, or even lower, but £2/trip is still better than the current option.

    Oh, and just to clarify I also definitely believe we should be using taxes to give homeless etc somewhere better to exist. The busses/trains/underground are not the place for that to happen.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The thing is that ticket machines, staff whose job it is to check tickets, all other infrastructure that exists in order to enforce fares, also all cost money... so at a certain point it becomes absurd to have very low fares because if it's free, you can get rid of all that infrastructure. I don't know enough about public transport in the UK to know how the calculation works there.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    That's fair. However, a lot of it is already in place and is quite automated. E.g. on busses they have a contactless card reader. Many have already moved to a fixed ride fee too. Basically you just tap as you walk past the driver, who already has to be there.

    The London underground has intermittent enforcement. A lot of the time the honour system is all there is. You just swipe your oyster card or bank card at the read point next to the entrance. They do random checks just to keep people honest.

    Even if you expand things, the cost of the tech is low enough to almost be a rounding error.

    The goal is to limit completely frivolous usage saturating capacity or otherwise forcing the target riders off completely.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (14 children)

    There has been research done into this, showing that free stuff can exhaust a resource like this much faster. E.g. cheap tickets could get drivers out of their cars, but not the people who'd walk two blocks. Plenty of countries with free public transport that seem to work just fine, but you might end up happier with cheap public transports rather than entirely free buses. Not having to deal with tickets would be really nice though, for everyone involved.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    Link it

    The entire municipality of Fredericia has free busses and literally none of the problems everyone keeps describing has happened.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11116-016-9695-5.pdf

    My opinions on this subject are nuanced. While I think free fares are definitely the ideal assuming unlimited resources, they are probably not the best intervention you can do for improving the overall transit posture of a given city. Infrastructure investments are almost always going to be a better bet.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Why do you have to assume unlimited resources? That is frankly a very dumb approach to this topic. Social mobility pays for itself. It is a net-positive for a city to allow residents to move freely and easily, even if the bus, when nothing else is accounted for, does cost fuel. Busses, trams and trains are infrastructure investments.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    I think you might be misunderstanding. My point is that resources are not unlimited, and hence prioritizing infrastructure investments - meaning a more comprehensive transit network with better headways - is preferable to fully removing user fees.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I think you are misunderstanding my point. Removing at-use fees enables social mobility that strengthens the economy far beyond what the fees would ever dare charge for the service. You can make it free and improve its service. Those are not mutually exclusive. This is entirely a political barrier, and any rational society that believes in the future would just make the damn bus free, because there are no downsides and a lot of upsides.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Buses, and this might shock you, aren't as sensitive to waste as other systems. If you need to get from point a to point b and using the bus is faster than, say, walking, then it wasn't a wasted trip. And if it wasn't shorter, the person who wasted their time is the one punished for wasting their time.

    So, no, vague unlisted studies about other systems isn't relevant here.

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  • [+] -9 points 3 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Bullshit. I lived in countries with both fully free healthcare and with a small fee, and if anything the system works better in the countries where it's free.

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  • [+] -9 points 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    Are the data and scholarships in the room with us now?

    I've read 16 independantly verified deep studies across multiple economic states that proved conclusively that buses being free increased the productivity of a populace, reduced time taken off, and directly increased lifespans of the participants. I had a link to these studies somewhere... hold on...

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