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[–] 10 points 4 months ago (25 children)

I'm sorry, the invasion of Ukraine is a terrible thing, and definitely illegal, but it is not a genocide. Not a single human rights organization or anything like the ICJ, UN, ICC is calling it a genocide.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Youre right I don't think it's correct at all to call it a genocide. I think they're just hypersensitive to the minimizing language tankies use a lot, where a lot of historians said "the uyghur genocide" and tankies say "uhm technically there was no mention of genocide from this international rights body so that's an overreaction." The implication being that sure it's not good what's happening to them, but it's not THAT bad.

    Tankies do a similar thing with Ukraine where they say "they're just taking back some of the land they rightfully control," or some other minimization.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    No when you kidnap children, strip them of their citizenship and forcibly adopt them out that’s genocide.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Technically that's ethnic cleansing.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Article II

    In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    1. Killing members of the group;
    2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

    This part matters a lot. If we ignore it, anyone killing any member of any group can be said to commit a genocide. Showing this is typically quite difficult in court cases, because it's pretty hard to read someone's mind, and very few people are stupid or arrogant enough to announce such intentions.

    Israeli officials are either so stupid or arrogant, going around saying stuff like "kill them, kill their mothers, kill their children", "It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. ... This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it’s absolutely not true.", “If we don’t give them food, they will move...”, and so on. And please don't underestimate this "and so on". There's pages and pages of Israeli officials basically saying "we're committing genocide".

    Normally it takes years of investigative work after the fact to even get a peep out of the ICJ, but here they conceded that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide about 4 months in. That's huge. And a key part of that is the fact that South Africa showed Israel's intent. And that's just something we haven't done for Russia's actions yet. Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine has been going on for years, and there's no plausible genocide ICJ ruling against Russia, and not for lack of trying. The evidence of intent has as of yet not been found.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Russia is currently not in the position to carry out a genocide, unlike Israel, so technically that can be correct. However, not everything is in the actions, something is in the intent as well (trying to commit a crime and failing can still be illegal and punishable), and Russia has made its heinous plans quite clear.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Russia_Should_Do_with_Ukraine

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    However, not everything is in the actions

    That is absolutely correct. Genocide, however, is not one of those things. A significant portion of the definition of genocide consists of actions. So when you say someone is committing a genocide, you're saying they're doing some specific stuff with some very specific intentions. One of the two is not enough. You need both.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    Thank you for proving my point.

    Ukraine is a genocide. ICJ is trying a case about that very fact.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    https://www.ejiltalk.org/another-setback-for-ukraine-the-icj-declares-russias-counter-claims-in-the-ukraine-v-russia-genocide-case-admissible/

    The ICJ is hearing counterclaims that Ukraine is committing genocide. So by your standards, Ukraine is committing genocide too. That doesn't hold up to my standards, so I don't believe Ukraine is committing genocide (or Russia for that matter).

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    I only brought up the ICJ because you mentioned it but I don’t need anything besides my eyes to see the truth of the genocide that’s happening.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (13 children)

    Ok I guess we have slightly different standards for calling things a genocide then. What did your eyes see that makes you call Russia's illegal invasion a genocide? What is your personal definition of genocide?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Article II

    In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    1. Killing members of the group;
    2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    See the fifth part where the Russians stripped Ukrainian children of their nationality, forced Russia nationality on them and forcibly adopted them to Russians.

    https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    Evidence they're being stripped of their Ukrainian identity?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Are you not worried about the kidnapping and forcible adoption parts?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    Should kids that are stuck in a warzone be left to die? Should orphaned children not be given a chance at a normal life if you can't find their parents?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    If someone invaded your house would you want them to kidnap your children to keep them safe?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Can you provide a source for children being deliberately kidnapped from their homes?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I'm not denying kids are winding up in Russia's custody. That's what should happen. They shouldn't just get lost in the streets or worse part of an active warzone, and if they are orphans then they should be given a house.

    Do you have evidence that they specifically took children from their families to raise in Russian households?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Also this isn't even sealioning lmao. You just can't provide evidence for your claims.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    During the Russo-Ukrainian war,[3] Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20,000 Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[7][8]The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin[9] (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them)[1] and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.[9] According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.[10][a]

    Child abductions in the Russo-Ukrainian war

    You won’t believe a source that isn’t Putin or dessalines tell you directly though.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Congrats on copy and pasting from Wikipedia. Now let's focus on this bit: According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.

    As I've already mentioned. It's a good thing not to let children be lost in a war zone. They should be looked after as if they were any other child, leaving them alone would be descrimination. Amd for those that are orphans there's nothing wrong with giving them a chance at an ordinary life. Now can you give evidence that what they're doing isn't them looking after Ukrainian children lost in a war as I'd hope Ukraine would also do if they found Russian children lost in the war, and that these acts are actually a deliberate way to destroy in whole or in part an ethnic group?

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