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Thank you for flying Spirit (lemmy.world)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[+] -52 points 6 months ago (47 children)

Most doctors won't admit to being a doctor in such circumstances anyway. If they do, they become responsible for the patient for the duration of the trip, and they don't get paid. They may have to make a call whether to emergency land early (pissing off everyone on the plane any delaying their own plans) or risking the life of the patient. It's a no win situation.

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  • [–] 36 points 6 months ago

    I've heard many will not jump at it and hope someone else does. But I think most will at least eye the situation and see if they really urgently need medical attention, then sigh deeply and do it anyway if so.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago*

    I spend my day around doctors. They take their Hippocratic oath very seriously, and this comment in no way exemplifies most of the practitioner behavior I observe on a daily basis.

    The insurance companies and for-profit hospital administrators on the other hand...

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  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago (15 children)

    I really hope most doctors will save someone's life even if they don't get paid for it. But who knows? Maybe my faith in humanity is still higher than it should be.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    It's not really about being paid, it's about being covered by malpractice insurance which typically only happens for paid services. Yes people or people's families regularly sue doctors when treatment is unsuccessful. Some jurisdictions don't allow this, but often while non doctors cannot be sued because of these 'Good Samaritan' laws, doctors can still be. And when you're in the air, it's not always clear what jurisdiction you are in.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Seems like a contradictory explanation.

    If malpractice insurance doesn’t apply because you are not practicing, wouldn’t Good Samaritan kick in cause you’re just a member of the public during the situation?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    The US is incredibly lawsuit-heavy. You can't even just go and explain your side of the story because the victim will bring the biggest, baddest ambulance chaser they can find.

    Not all states apply good samarintan clauses the same, some only apply to civil liability which gets messy.

    The Hippocratic oath would be enough for most to do it anyway if no one steps up, but i understand the not wanting to part because they are not universally protected.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    In Canada all provinces have some form of Good Samaritan law which means that you aren't responsible other than gross negligence. So any off-duty doctor would be very safe to help out unless they were doing something very stupid.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    But who defines 'very stupid'. The loved ones of the person who dies because the doctor didn't recommend an emergency stop?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Of course it can only surely be decided in a court. But in this case it would be something like was not actively trying to cause harm.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    If a doctor has to defend themselves in court they have to pay a lawyer, spend a bunch of time on it and it's a huge stressor. Much easier to just stay quiet. Almost all doctors would step in and save a live if there was something specific that they needed to be done. But in an airplane, there's barely any equipment - all of the stewards are going to be trained in first aid and cpr, so are likely better able to manage anything that can be done. The only reason they ask for a doctor is because it's a trope that people expect (so people would be upset if they didn't, and so didn't appear to be doing all they could), and to share the responsibility.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Of course, but because the law is so protective you won't need to 99.9% of the time. Canada also isn't a very litigious place and even if it does get raised it will probably get thrown out quickly. To most doctors it is also a huge stressors to watch someone that they can help die. So overall the balance is well worth trying to help out.

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  • [–] 54 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Pretty sure it would be illegal to not help in quite a lot of countries, especially as a doctor. Apparently USA is not one of those countries.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    All they have to do is have a glass or two of wine and say they're not able to act in a professional capacity.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Unless you are incapacitated you need to help and two glasses of wine don't count here. But again this is valid for "normal" countries.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    If they are asking it is explicitly because it's beyond basic first aid and they're scared. The plane is landing either way, if they are already asking for a doctor, then the decision was already made by the pilots. Afterwards it's a matter of providing proper care until delivered to a emergency services at the airport. All doctors I know will absolutely respond to such a call on a plane, but medical assistance doesn't always include touching or doing something to the patient. Often, it's just looking at them or talking to them (if they're conscious) and advising the flight crew on what the proper care should be like. Ultimately, doctors are useless without proper infrastructure and resources. A surgeon without a hospital is as helpless as the patient and no first aid carries a pharmacy.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    as a surgical specialist i am very not qualified to treat heart attacks (which other than chewing an aspirin and breathing oxygen requires a massive cath lab and an interventional cardiologist or a cardiac surgeon with a special OR including a cardiopulmonary bypass pump and a perfusionist; my current decent size hospital on the ground has neither of these) and barely more useful than a medical student at 99% of various medical problems a normal person may have. without a knife, anesthesia, and millions of dollars of equipment i'd just be asking chat gpt how to do breathing exercises with an elderly person having a panic attack

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  • [+] -7 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    As usual Lemmy downvoting things they don't agree with, even if it's true.

    I was with a physician friend on the Las Vegas strip as a guy went down with a heart attack. I'm like, this is your moment! Go save them! And she grabs my arm and yanks me into a doorway so I can't make a commotion, explains that no doctor will simply do that, it means they're on the hook for it, when an EMT is just minutes away and is properly prepared to handle it. She said if doctors didn't obey this unwritten rule, they'd constantly be giving out care to random people, possibly without admitting privileges in nearby hospitals, taking on liability they're not insured for (being outside of a hospital), etc.

    So you're completely right.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    I don't think that a plane in flight is likely to have good EMT coverage.

    There's a significant difference between "we're in an easily reachable party of a major city and I can expect a fully equipped ambulance to be here in minutes" and "we're in mid-air and even if we make an emergency landing the patient won't receive medical care for another hour unless I provide it".

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    You can do CPR without saying you're a doctor which is really all you can do in that situation. So maybe your friend is just a piece of shit?

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    by performing any medical intervention you are responsible for the care of the individual. this includes if you aren't even a doctor and are simply first aid certified.

    don't blame the doctors, blame the politicians and lawyers who made the laws.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago*

    In Nevada, it wouldn't surprise me. The US is indeed filled with assholes.^1^ Most of the world though, has good Samaritan laws and you won't face criminal charges if you were actively trying to save a life outside of extremely gross negligence. Many places of the world also have strong first aid certification programs that further protect those certified as long as they followed the standard protocol.

    ^1^: Disregard that comment, Nevada does have Good Samaritan laws, that person's friend is just a piece of shit.

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