▲ 881 ▼ "Trippy" Reality (lemmy.world) submitted 7 months ago by ekZepp@lemmy.world to c/science_memes@mander.xyz 134 comments fedilink hide all child comments https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/5-illusions-reveal-brain-warps-reality https://www.sciencenewstoday.org/how-the-brain-interprets-reality-a-neuroscience-perspective
[–] erev@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago (10 children) the logic might be the same, the perception may not permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) The logic is based on perception, though. Colors either clash or go together because of how we percieve them and which colors go with which is pretty consistent between cultures and time periods. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] BussyCat@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) But not everyone agrees on which colors go together and which clash permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, that wasn't a good example since taste is weird. A better example would be that most people would agree that the pink background on this sprite sheet is almost painful to look at while other, more luminous, elements are fine. If our perception significantly varies, then simple mid-luminance color blocks shouldn't have consistent effects from person to person. Parts of that yellow gradient on the right should cause more strain to someone you know than the magic pink field if perception is strongly variable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The relative perception of things may be similar while the absolute perception of something differs wildly for everyone permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tiresia@slrpnk.net 3 points 7 months ago But perception is for a large part embedded in memory, which differs individually. For me steel foundries smell amazing because I used to play on the beach near a steel foundry, to the point I need to put effort into understanding that it's actually kind of acrid. So am I still "having the same perception" as someone who doesn't have the lived experience? This can happen at a society-wide level too. Liminal beige and seafoam green were not intended to create a feeling of disquiet, but of calm neutrality. Modern audiences perceive them as disquieting because they have been systematically used in our society to impose a sense of calm on un-calm situations, such as operating rooms or hallways in sketchy buildings. I honestly don't know how much of the commonality of associations across cultures comes from instinct and how much comes from the fact that all children learn to live on the same planet with the same physical laws. I would bet that for 99.9% of children, their first experience with a strong sulphur smell is going to be from rotten eggs (or similar rotten goods) that others act disgusted by. So the fact that sulphur smells disgusting to the vast majority of adults is not evidence for instinct over memory. The same goes for green plants, red blood, blue skies, etc. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 2 points 7 months ago (2 children) At least it is in terms of a spectrum. Everybody finds orange text on a red background uncomfortable to read. So there are plenty of shared perception categories at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) i think the best example of this is music. most people have very good relative pitch perception, but mediocre absolute pitch perception. that shared relative pitch perception though will often be built based on ones own experiences and life. the shared perceptual relativity is both developed socially/culturally and innate based on how we process and abstract information, but that says nothing about our absolute perception of that information. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 1 point 7 months ago Its interesting. We can both look at a landscape and agree there's two mountains in the distance and a forest in front, and can agree on a thousand further details like if the mountains are barren or snow-topped. But only when it comes to colour can we doubt whether what the other person sees is what we see. To be fair, the artist Monet did that experiment on himself. Painted a scene with one eye open and the next day with the other. Details are pretty much the same, but the spectrum is pretty different permalink fedilink source parent [+] quarkquasar@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yes but for all we know one person perceives the pickles in a way i would consider tart or sour while the other may perceive them as sweet. but relative to everyone's individual perception this fits along the broader categories that people may experience. the relatuvity may be the same while the absolute nature is not permalink fedilink source parent
[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) The logic is based on perception, though. Colors either clash or go together because of how we percieve them and which colors go with which is pretty consistent between cultures and time periods. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] BussyCat@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) But not everyone agrees on which colors go together and which clash permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, that wasn't a good example since taste is weird. A better example would be that most people would agree that the pink background on this sprite sheet is almost painful to look at while other, more luminous, elements are fine. If our perception significantly varies, then simple mid-luminance color blocks shouldn't have consistent effects from person to person. Parts of that yellow gradient on the right should cause more strain to someone you know than the magic pink field if perception is strongly variable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The relative perception of things may be similar while the absolute perception of something differs wildly for everyone permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tiresia@slrpnk.net 3 points 7 months ago But perception is for a large part embedded in memory, which differs individually. For me steel foundries smell amazing because I used to play on the beach near a steel foundry, to the point I need to put effort into understanding that it's actually kind of acrid. So am I still "having the same perception" as someone who doesn't have the lived experience? This can happen at a society-wide level too. Liminal beige and seafoam green were not intended to create a feeling of disquiet, but of calm neutrality. Modern audiences perceive them as disquieting because they have been systematically used in our society to impose a sense of calm on un-calm situations, such as operating rooms or hallways in sketchy buildings. I honestly don't know how much of the commonality of associations across cultures comes from instinct and how much comes from the fact that all children learn to live on the same planet with the same physical laws. I would bet that for 99.9% of children, their first experience with a strong sulphur smell is going to be from rotten eggs (or similar rotten goods) that others act disgusted by. So the fact that sulphur smells disgusting to the vast majority of adults is not evidence for instinct over memory. The same goes for green plants, red blood, blue skies, etc. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BussyCat@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) But not everyone agrees on which colors go together and which clash permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, that wasn't a good example since taste is weird. A better example would be that most people would agree that the pink background on this sprite sheet is almost painful to look at while other, more luminous, elements are fine. If our perception significantly varies, then simple mid-luminance color blocks shouldn't have consistent effects from person to person. Parts of that yellow gradient on the right should cause more strain to someone you know than the magic pink field if perception is strongly variable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The relative perception of things may be similar while the absolute perception of something differs wildly for everyone permalink fedilink source parent
[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, that wasn't a good example since taste is weird. A better example would be that most people would agree that the pink background on this sprite sheet is almost painful to look at while other, more luminous, elements are fine. If our perception significantly varies, then simple mid-luminance color blocks shouldn't have consistent effects from person to person. Parts of that yellow gradient on the right should cause more strain to someone you know than the magic pink field if perception is strongly variable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The relative perception of things may be similar while the absolute perception of something differs wildly for everyone permalink fedilink source parent
[–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The relative perception of things may be similar while the absolute perception of something differs wildly for everyone permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tiresia@slrpnk.net 3 points 7 months ago But perception is for a large part embedded in memory, which differs individually. For me steel foundries smell amazing because I used to play on the beach near a steel foundry, to the point I need to put effort into understanding that it's actually kind of acrid. So am I still "having the same perception" as someone who doesn't have the lived experience? This can happen at a society-wide level too. Liminal beige and seafoam green were not intended to create a feeling of disquiet, but of calm neutrality. Modern audiences perceive them as disquieting because they have been systematically used in our society to impose a sense of calm on un-calm situations, such as operating rooms or hallways in sketchy buildings. I honestly don't know how much of the commonality of associations across cultures comes from instinct and how much comes from the fact that all children learn to live on the same planet with the same physical laws. I would bet that for 99.9% of children, their first experience with a strong sulphur smell is going to be from rotten eggs (or similar rotten goods) that others act disgusted by. So the fact that sulphur smells disgusting to the vast majority of adults is not evidence for instinct over memory. The same goes for green plants, red blood, blue skies, etc. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 2 points 7 months ago (2 children) At least it is in terms of a spectrum. Everybody finds orange text on a red background uncomfortable to read. So there are plenty of shared perception categories at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) i think the best example of this is music. most people have very good relative pitch perception, but mediocre absolute pitch perception. that shared relative pitch perception though will often be built based on ones own experiences and life. the shared perceptual relativity is both developed socially/culturally and innate based on how we process and abstract information, but that says nothing about our absolute perception of that information. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 1 point 7 months ago Its interesting. We can both look at a landscape and agree there's two mountains in the distance and a forest in front, and can agree on a thousand further details like if the mountains are barren or snow-topped. But only when it comes to colour can we doubt whether what the other person sees is what we see. To be fair, the artist Monet did that experiment on himself. Painted a scene with one eye open and the next day with the other. Details are pretty much the same, but the spectrum is pretty different permalink fedilink source parent
[–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) i think the best example of this is music. most people have very good relative pitch perception, but mediocre absolute pitch perception. that shared relative pitch perception though will often be built based on ones own experiences and life. the shared perceptual relativity is both developed socially/culturally and innate based on how we process and abstract information, but that says nothing about our absolute perception of that information. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 1 point 7 months ago Its interesting. We can both look at a landscape and agree there's two mountains in the distance and a forest in front, and can agree on a thousand further details like if the mountains are barren or snow-topped. But only when it comes to colour can we doubt whether what the other person sees is what we see. To be fair, the artist Monet did that experiment on himself. Painted a scene with one eye open and the next day with the other. Details are pretty much the same, but the spectrum is pretty different permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 1 point 7 months ago Its interesting. We can both look at a landscape and agree there's two mountains in the distance and a forest in front, and can agree on a thousand further details like if the mountains are barren or snow-topped. But only when it comes to colour can we doubt whether what the other person sees is what we see. To be fair, the artist Monet did that experiment on himself. Painted a scene with one eye open and the next day with the other. Details are pretty much the same, but the spectrum is pretty different permalink fedilink source parent
[+] quarkquasar@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yes but for all we know one person perceives the pickles in a way i would consider tart or sour while the other may perceive them as sweet. but relative to everyone's individual perception this fits along the broader categories that people may experience. the relatuvity may be the same while the absolute nature is not permalink fedilink source parent
[–] erev@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yes but for all we know one person perceives the pickles in a way i would consider tart or sour while the other may perceive them as sweet. but relative to everyone's individual perception this fits along the broader categories that people may experience. the relatuvity may be the same while the absolute nature is not permalink fedilink source parent