625
Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them (www.npr.org)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
245 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 45 points 8 months ago (66 children)

I know it because it's in the spec necessary for licensing. It shuts off in under 20 ms so you can't even get shocked by the prongs of the plug if pulled out.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 66 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago (33 children)

    It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany. It has to be compliant with the local law to be sold legally.

    It all shouldn't be so difficult to understand.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 33 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (25 children)

    So you can't buy raw solar panels or inverters in Germany?

    Sure you can. Solar panels will be fried by grid voltage more or less immediately if you connect them directly to a wall socket and become useless.

    You cannot buy a PV inverter in Germany (entire EU really) that doesn't automatically shut off if it doesn't detect a frequency to sync against from it's AC side, unless it can run off-grid in which case it has to disble the grid connection within the same 20ms.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 25 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (23 children)

    Oh you can buy off grid inverters (or inverters capable of "island mode"). But they are required to be able to automatically disconnect from grid, even if they are never going to be connected to a grid. You can't buy solar inverters without this for the exact reason that you can connect them to grid.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (21 children)

    They detect incoming frequency, not voltage. And yes, they absolutely detect the difference, I have one, it works exactly like this.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 21 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    I mean...if there is no grid frequency detected it automatically breaks connection between the house and the grid and keeps supplying the house from the panels and batteries. When it detects grid frequency again it reconnects the house to grid. It's a fairly simple concept.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    If there's no grid, there's no connection to the grid to break. So that non-connecton will remain in the broken state.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Hey moron. How do you suppose the inverter knows that?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    So you do realize that this is exactly how HV wire detectors work right lol... You hold up a wire (or there's a wire in the wall) carrying high voltage, and the wand will pick up the EM Field.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Right. What's the typical frequency of the EMF field generated by a piece of wire?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    What are waves if not frequencies?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Why don't you want to answer the question?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Because waves are frequencies. I wanted to encourage you to think about what your were arguing about.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

    Right, it's definitely not because you don't know? Waves are not frequencies. Frequency is a measurement of how often something happens, typically measured in Hz. In the case of a loose piece of wire, there is nothing happening, and you can't measure how often nothing happens. But thanks for confirming you don't know.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    You have a wire, it has voltage going through it, that means it has an EM field. We can measure said field in many ways. You can even measure this without needing to physically touch the wire. The absence of any electricity at all means no frequency, no em field. Put even 1mv through the wire and now it has an EM field.

    You have just measured Frequency vs No frequency. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    They would likely have two separate frequencies, a standard used nationally "On the Grid" frequency, and if you're "Off the Grid" you would need to have a different frequency then what ever is used locally.

    You could use a device Like this to measure, or change the frequency of said wire.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

    and if you're "Off the Grid" you would need to have a different frequency then what ever is used locally.

    I said "grid off". LOL again I ask, what is the frequency of a loose piece of wire? Let me go ahead and answer this for you this time: there is none. Which is why an inverter can't tell the difference between being off the grid, and being on the grid with no power. They're both "no frequency". Is any of this getting through to you?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Ahh I misunderstood you and took you for the benefit of the doubt.

    If you have a system off grid then it doesn't fucking matter.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Of course you can buy whatever you like, and whatever is being sold has to be compliant with local legal requirements.

    If you buy illegal stuff and cause problems, you will have problems with your insurance and potentially, legal ones.

    And that's all I'm going to say on the matter. HAND.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany.

    Or you buy it in Aliexpress/Temu and it will have whatever it will have, no policeman is going to come check if the panel they see from the street has a stamp or not.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    But if your house burns down because of your unlicensed configuration, the insurance won't pay, and if people got hurt there will be a criminal investigation.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago* (25 children)

    You are only allowed to sell inverters approved by VDE

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 25 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (23 children)

    You are required to notify your utilities that you'll be operating a direct plugged small solar PV installation, that's it. They can't forbid you from doing this.

    The utilities don't monitor compliance, the manufacturer is.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    The certification on the product shows that it's safe to use in grid-tie. What the fuck are you on about? Are you just being intentionally an obtuse pain in the ass?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 19 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, really weird. It seems like they had some kind of agenda or point to make, but they're going about it a very strange way.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    What’s to stop anyone from installing a panel without a licensed reviewer taking a look?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    ...it's illegal?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    How can cars exist when anyone could do an illegal thing to modify them?!?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    And things that are regulated are regulated.

    That's the point.

    What is the point? I mean, truly, what is it that you're trying to convey in this thread?

    Do us all a favor and use a few sentences to explain that your point actually is here because clearly you're trying to make a point but you're going about it in a very strange way.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    What do you think "certifications" are?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Where did anyone establish that?

    Maybe you should reread the thread then because others have explained to you that they're certified.

    Are you just trying to get your comment count or something? Such a bizarre way to try to make a point. Not to mention, you're being a major asshole to people for no reason.

    I regret even engaging in the first place.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    The world is built around the idea that people follow the rules. If you plug in an uncertified device, you are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.

    You realize you could fucking plug ANYTHING into electrical systems now? How many people make Widowmaker cords for generators and back feed the fucking grid during outages? This is not some new problem.

    If you're found fucking around, you find out with a big ass fine/jail. That's how it works.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    In the United States that would be UL Certification.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    UL is not a license. It's a certification. And you forgot the second question.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    UL certification is a requirement for an electric or electronic product to be licensed for sale to consumers in the US. This is enforced on US manufacturers of a product and on importers.

    Whilst people buying something from AliExpress for personal use and importing it themselves don't have to obbey such requirements, those importing them or making them for sale in the US do.

    The CE mark does the same thing in the EU.

    No idea if in the US there are further licensing requirements for things to be connected to the grid that would close the importing for personal use loophole.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    UL certification is a requirement for an electric or electronic product to be licensed for sale to consumers in the US.

    That is completely incorrect. I own a ton of equipment that is not UL listed.

    Further, UL listed equipment is not prevented from backfeeding to the grid, and in fact most of it is intended for precisely that.

    No idea if in the US there are further licensing requirements for things to be connected to the grid that would close the importing for personal use loophole.

    There aren't.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)