artyom comments on Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them

[+] artyom@piefed.social -27 points 8 months ago (28 children)

It has to be compliant with the local law to be sold legally.

So you can't buy raw solar panels or inverters in Germany?

It all shouldn't be so difficult to understand.

It's not, which is why I'm not sure why you're struggling.

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[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 8 months ago (25 children)

So you can't buy raw solar panels or inverters in Germany?

Sure you can. Solar panels will be fried by grid voltage more or less immediately if you connect them directly to a wall socket and become useless.

You cannot buy a PV inverter in Germany (entire EU really) that doesn't automatically shut off if it doesn't detect a frequency to sync against from it's AC side, unless it can run off-grid in which case it has to disble the grid connection within the same 20ms.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -4 points 8 months ago (24 children)

You cannot buy a PV inverter in Germany (entire EU really) that doesn't automatically shut off if it doesn't detect a frequency to sync against from it's AC side, unless it can run off-grid in which case it has to disble the grid connection within the same 20ms.

So you can't buy a grid-connected inverter with off-grid capabilities? Because the inverter has no way to tell the difference between the grid being off, and being off-grid.

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[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 8 months ago (23 children)

Oh you can buy off grid inverters (or inverters capable of "island mode"). But they are required to be able to automatically disconnect from grid, even if they are never going to be connected to a grid. You can't buy solar inverters without this for the exact reason that you can connect them to grid.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -5 points 8 months ago (22 children)

Again, it doesn't matter what inverter you buy, they can't tell the difference between off grid and grid off. So if it shuts off when it doesn't detect voltage, then it won't work off grid. Which makes it sound like you're saying off-grid inverters are illegal.

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[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago (21 children)

They detect incoming frequency, not voltage. And yes, they absolutely detect the difference, I have one, it works exactly like this.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -4 points 8 months ago* (20 children)

How do you detect the frequency of voltage that doesn't exist? Hold a wire up in the air and measure the frequency and let me know what you find.

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[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago (6 children)

I mean...if there is no grid frequency detected it automatically breaks connection between the house and the grid and keeps supplying the house from the panels and batteries. When it detects grid frequency again it reconnects the house to grid. It's a fairly simple concept.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

if there is no grid frequency detected it automatically breaks connection between the house and the grid

Okay now try again but there is no grid.

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[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

If there's no grid, there's no connection to the grid to break. So that non-connecton will remain in the broken state.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Hey moron. How do you suppose the inverter knows that?

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[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

By checking. How the fuck else would it know.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

It doesn't know, moron. That's the point.

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[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago

It does though.

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[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago (12 children)

So you do realize that this is exactly how HV wire detectors work right lol... You hold up a wire (or there's a wire in the wall) carrying high voltage, and the wand will pick up the EM Field.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -1 points 8 months ago (11 children)

Right. What's the typical frequency of the EMF field generated by a piece of wire?

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[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 2 points 8 months ago (10 children)

What are waves if not frequencies?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -1 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Why don't you want to answer the question?

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[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 4 points 8 months ago (8 children)

Because waves are frequencies. I wanted to encourage you to think about what your were arguing about.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

Right, it's definitely not because you don't know? Waves are not frequencies. Frequency is a measurement of how often something happens, typically measured in Hz. In the case of a loose piece of wire, there is nothing happening, and you can't measure how often nothing happens. But thanks for confirming you don't know.

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[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago (6 children)

You have a wire, it has voltage going through it, that means it has an EM field. We can measure said field in many ways. You can even measure this without needing to physically touch the wire. The absence of any electricity at all means no frequency, no em field. Put even 1mv through the wire and now it has an EM field.

You have just measured Frequency vs No frequency. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -2 points 8 months ago* (5 children)

This is not difficult to understand, which is why I don't understand why you're having such a hard time.

None of what you just said explains what the EMF frequency is for a loose wire, or how an inverter would tell the difference between off grid and grid off.

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[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

They would likely have two separate frequencies, a standard used nationally "On the Grid" frequency, and if you're "Off the Grid" you would need to have a different frequency then what ever is used locally.

You could use a device Like this to measure, or change the frequency of said wire.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

and if you're "Off the Grid" you would need to have a different frequency then what ever is used locally.

I said "grid off". LOL again I ask, what is the frequency of a loose piece of wire? Let me go ahead and answer this for you this time: there is none. Which is why an inverter can't tell the difference between being off the grid, and being on the grid with no power. They're both "no frequency". Is any of this getting through to you?

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