Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728

Ahoy mateys!

A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.

But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. ....

More context

Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.

As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. ...

Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.

In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.

Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated

i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it

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[–] 97 points 8 months ago (99 children)

This will probably be unpopular but the leftist - liberal infighting is my least favorite part of the fediverse and why I usually end up having to give people a warning before telling them to get on the fediverse.

This drama is kind of the epitome of that

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    Leftist vs liberal infighting has been going on since the late 1700s.

    Of course what you really have to ask yourself is, if they've been infighting since basically the beginning and if their ideals are diametrically opposed then is it even in fighting?

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    Liberals love to call it infighting because it allows them to take credit for all the progress that happened thanks to leftists. And yet they're always on the right-wing side of those "infights".

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  • [–] 42 points 8 months ago (30 children)

    Before Lemmy, I didn't know it was possible to go so left that you hated liberals.

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  • [–] 53 points 8 months ago (26 children)

    Corporate media didn’t want you to be exposed to any ideas outside of the Overton window.

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  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago

    They are very clearly distinguishable, just not to you yet. Until recently, you’d only ever heard disagreements coming from your right, so you confuse disagreements coming from your left with them.

     
    Liberalism in fact has more in common with fascism than socialism: they’re both capitalist ideologies. Previously.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago* (11 children)

    I legitimately need to check users post histories to understand which extreme they are on

    If you can't tell the difference between "media companies serve the interests of their owners and managers" and Q-Anon, that might indicate a problem with you rather than with others.

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  • [+] 6 points 8 months ago (11 children)
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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Only difference is that your side is “right”

    lmao, you're the perfect centrist. By your standard, "the Holocaust happened" and "white genocide in South Africa happened" are both equally valid statements. Do you see how ridiculous it is to just group statements by superficial similarity and treat them as equivalent regardless of the substance of the claims or the evidence?

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

    You are reducing both sides to an extreme and extracting a single quote from both of them - "corporate media is lying to you to protect politicians preying on children" . You understand that one side is right and the other isn't - where do you think the difference appears? Certainly not at the extreme surface level of a single quote you are picking.

    All sides in WW2 were killing people, I literally can't tell the difference!

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Liberalism is supportive of capitalism, leftism begins at anti-capitalism. What did you think the left was before Lemmy?

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    Liberalism arose as a bourgeois ideology to use against the feudalist systems, the equivalent in feudalism being the clergy and the church. The mode of production capitalism is based on individual ownership of capital, and claiming the labor-power sold by workers is equal in position to the capitalists buying the labor-power and selling commodoties.

    Liberalism was left when feudalism was dominant. Putting it in its historical context, it helped overthrow feudalism. However, there is no "Absolute Idea" of Hegel, what was progressive at one point is still reactionary at a later point. In the era of capitalist decay, socialism is on the left, the progressive ideology.

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  • [–] 74 points 8 months ago (56 children)

    I can't think of any "leftist organisations" that support Zionism ? Maybe you're confusing fascist with leftist ?

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  • [–] 50 points 8 months ago (21 children)

    Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.

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  • [–] 31 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    Seriously, imagine typing "there is often only 'anti genocide and pro genocide' in online discussions" and thinking "yes, I will post this and look like a very good and moral person". Yes, if you're not against genocide you're for genocide. Yes, if you think supporting the resistance to genocide is antisemitic, you are a genocidal zionist. This type of "nuanced" "anti-zionism" (liberal zionism) is also widespread on feddit.org.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    By fucking german law at that. And they enforce it too. Never again, as defined by nihlists with no soul serving the plutocracy while the far right takes their country from them and fixes elections while they are busy surrendering their people to tech.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Resistance to genocide is the correct position to take.

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Saying Hamas is antisemitic is sure fire sign of being a Zionist.

    Palestinians are a semitic people.

    If you want to saw that Hamas hates Jews, well, when your entire life has been being bombed by planes with stars of David on them, while jackbooted thugs with stars of David on their shoulder kick in your door to kidnap your family members in the night, and settlers with star of David necklaces show up and claim your home and land by divine right, I can start to see where you develop feelings toward the people who carry the same sign.

    Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim as they are so fucking desperate to do.

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  • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim

    You probably already know this, but Israel wants the world to be a more dangerous place for Jews to justify Israel's illegitimate existence and aggression. That's why they conducted terrorist attacks against Ethiopian Jews, to convince them that they needed to move to Israel as it's the only safe place for them... where they're then met by deep-rooted racism.

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  • Islamophobia is much more prevalent in the west than antijudaism. There is islamophobia on a systemic level. And lets not pretend that it's directed only at muslims but arabs in general. Crying "antisemitism!!" about an indigenous armed resistance movement is the #alllivesmatter of this conflict.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Spoken like someone that condemned the ANC as terrorists in the 80's.

    "Sure, apartheid is wrong, but the people suffering it and fighting it are the worst" <--- you.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it'll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago*

    The German left, at least the loud one, is public ally dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.

    This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.

    That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions.

    Thank you again for clarifying which side you are on.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago* (19 children)

    It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago* (16 children)

    You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago* (14 children)

    people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism

    This is a Zionist defense of Israel by conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (3 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago*

    People that want a civil discussion on the merits of a philosophy whose base principle is at best ethnic cleansing don't deserve one.

    You're like a white northerner demanding a civil discussion on the merits of slavery to a black person in the underground railroad.

    Your position is just as disgusting and ludicrous.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    I think they're German, conflating antisemitism with anti-zionism is their favorite excuse for why this genocide will finally be the good one.

    Henry Morgenthau Apology Form. To: Henry Morgenthau. From: Blank. Date: Blank. 6 checkboxs are shown with text besides them: "The media convinced me Germans could be trusted with a state." "I didn't watch the actual war." "I miss the Kingdom of Prussia." "I don't know how much Germans love genocide." "I was jealous of Soviet influnce gains." "Mercury was in retrograde." A checkbox with the text "I will hereby respect Henry Morgenthau and I will NOT talk down on the future first-ballot Hall Of Famer."

    Sadly, this meme remains ever relevant.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    For clarity, stethoscope theory is bullshit based on vibes. Communists support collectivizing production and distribution, and support states where the working classes are in charge, including their right to build up defensive mechanisms to protect the gains of socialism. This is entirely incompatible with the right-wing, who seek to maintain the dominion of capitalism.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    No. The majority of Israelis are Ashkenazi Jews from Europe. They are European settler-colonists on occupied land.

    Edit to add: I took a peak at your modlog; it’s filled with fascist brainworms.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I joined to talk about math and programming. It's a letdown that this Podunk platform seems to consist mostly of the weirdest, loudest people who saw the political compass meme and took it way too seriously.

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