▲ 687 ▼ No, not like that (lemmy.world) submitted 1 year ago by distantsounds@lemmy.world to c/politicalhumor@lemmy.world 162 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 94 points 1 year ago (100 children) Isn’t this how change happens? But voting for who you believe in in the primaries and your preferred party in the general? permalink fedilink source hideshow 100 child comments replies: [–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago (49 children) in theory, yes. in practice the DNC will protect corporate donations at all cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 49 child comments replies: [–] darthmachina@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago (22 children) For reference see Bernie Sanders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children) everyone "acting" like he was treated unfairly by the party establishment... Did you somehow forget that the DNC was caught conspiring with the Clinton campaign? Did you forget that when they were sued over it the DNC argued in court that they have the right to choose who would be the Democrat nominee? And that the promise to be impartial in their charter was a mere "political promise" (aka a lie) and they were under no obligation to actually be impartial? No one is "acting" like anything. It's a straight up fact that they admitted to under oath. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) You're just going to ignore the democratic party coordinating all the candidates to drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before super tuesday? Plus having their big media buddies run the story of "the Biden miracle" after getting democratic party stooge Clyburn to endorse Biden and come out ahead in South Carolina (the state that went to Trump in the general election, by the way). Also, the superdelegates made it look like the lead that Clinton had was so insurmountable that it was pointless to turn out for Bernie. If you think these have no effect then, by the same logic, you'd think that billionaires spending tons of money on PACs has no effect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago Exactly permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (23 children) he even got congratulated by Bill Clinton, so I don’t think the DNC you’re talking about really exist in any sizable number. pfft. it's the same dnc that screwed bernie over for hillary; remember when bill got on the plane with the AG? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/04/when_loretta_met_bill_on_the_tarmac_140244.html look, I'd prefer clinton over trump any day. but acting like the DNC is all hunky about non-dem-stalwarts playing in their kiddy pool is pretty ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (6 replies) load more comments (2 replies) [–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (44 children) It's never worked so far, I don't see why the DNC is about to start. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 44 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Except for the most recent presidential election. And when they buried Sanders. And that's just what we know about. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 28 points 1 year ago (10 children) The problem isn't the "DNC" it's the Democratic establishment. That includes all their operatives in media that help keep the masses in check. The sad fact is that not enough voters pay that much attention. The vast majority of the time, the establishment gets their pick. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies) [–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children) 😂😂😂 “The DNC doesn’t pick the candidates.” 🤣🤣🤣 Does anyone else remember the primary we didn’t have for the 2024 election? Or how about how dirty they did our boy Bernie in 2016? Or how about the fact that you can’t even run as a Democrat unless you bring them at least $1m in fundraising? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (8 children) Winning the primary =/= actually getting the support of the party apparatus behind you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children) They aren’t required to fund him, that’s true, but all campaign donations from the DNC are transparent. He can compare his support to Adams’ 2021 purse. They also can’t stop him from fundraising directly. If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You realise you can present historical actions that support your argument without being a complete bellend about it, right? For example, in 2015 Bernie Sanders was becoming a hot favourite to become the public's new pin-up boy for the 2016 presidential run. Unfortunately for him, it is alleged that the DNC had already banked on Hilary Clinton being the primary winner, so their plan may have had it's legs done before they even started. So, it is widely reported that the DNC provided very little support to Sanders for the remainder of his campaign run, while pouring big money and organising competing support behind Clinton, stacking the odds in her favour. In this instance, history tells us that whereas a candidate may be supremely popular, they may not end up getting the support of the political party they represent. (The above is a massive oversimplification to fit into a bite sized lemmy post, so points of discussion are expected) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) We literally just picked the Democratic candidate for NYC mayor. What about that is confusing to you? If the DNC didn’t want him, they shouldn’t have allowed him in the primary. That part is over now. Zohran Mamdani is the Democratic candidate. That’s how primaries work. Stop misinforming people. Most are uninformed on the process as it is. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The Democratic primary was RCV. The general election will be FPTP. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] just2look@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) And how much do you want to bet he will be backed and supported by the DNC during his 'independent' campaign? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) I’ve lived in NY since the 70s. Being on the Democratic ticket is all he needs for the average know-nothing voter. He just beat out six other candidates with a grassroots primary campaign. He doesn’t need their money. He just needed to be in the blue/working families column. But sure, tell me all about how you know everything. I’ll be sure to take notes. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (12 replies) [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) So, now it's up to centrists who really wanted their skeevy sex pest in office to actually do what they have been preaching ever since puma pac failed to elect McCain. They need to vote blue no matter who. They won't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago I'll be happy when the election has run its course without the party engaging in the sort of fuckery they can't ever seem to stop themselves from engaging in. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago Yes, until an internal smear campaign takes them down, and the whole thing comes apart from petty infighting. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago Cuomo is running as independent to split the vote and promote a republican candidate. yhea Democracy my ass permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago (49 children) in theory, yes. in practice the DNC will protect corporate donations at all cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 49 child comments replies: [–] darthmachina@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago (22 children) For reference see Bernie Sanders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children) everyone "acting" like he was treated unfairly by the party establishment... Did you somehow forget that the DNC was caught conspiring with the Clinton campaign? Did you forget that when they were sued over it the DNC argued in court that they have the right to choose who would be the Democrat nominee? And that the promise to be impartial in their charter was a mere "political promise" (aka a lie) and they were under no obligation to actually be impartial? No one is "acting" like anything. It's a straight up fact that they admitted to under oath. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) You're just going to ignore the democratic party coordinating all the candidates to drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before super tuesday? Plus having their big media buddies run the story of "the Biden miracle" after getting democratic party stooge Clyburn to endorse Biden and come out ahead in South Carolina (the state that went to Trump in the general election, by the way). Also, the superdelegates made it look like the lead that Clinton had was so insurmountable that it was pointless to turn out for Bernie. If you think these have no effect then, by the same logic, you'd think that billionaires spending tons of money on PACs has no effect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago Exactly permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (23 children) he even got congratulated by Bill Clinton, so I don’t think the DNC you’re talking about really exist in any sizable number. pfft. it's the same dnc that screwed bernie over for hillary; remember when bill got on the plane with the AG? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/04/when_loretta_met_bill_on_the_tarmac_140244.html look, I'd prefer clinton over trump any day. but acting like the DNC is all hunky about non-dem-stalwarts playing in their kiddy pool is pretty ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (6 replies) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] darthmachina@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago (22 children) For reference see Bernie Sanders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children) everyone "acting" like he was treated unfairly by the party establishment... Did you somehow forget that the DNC was caught conspiring with the Clinton campaign? Did you forget that when they were sued over it the DNC argued in court that they have the right to choose who would be the Democrat nominee? And that the promise to be impartial in their charter was a mere "political promise" (aka a lie) and they were under no obligation to actually be impartial? No one is "acting" like anything. It's a straight up fact that they admitted to under oath. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) You're just going to ignore the democratic party coordinating all the candidates to drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before super tuesday? Plus having their big media buddies run the story of "the Biden miracle" after getting democratic party stooge Clyburn to endorse Biden and come out ahead in South Carolina (the state that went to Trump in the general election, by the way). Also, the superdelegates made it look like the lead that Clinton had was so insurmountable that it was pointless to turn out for Bernie. If you think these have no effect then, by the same logic, you'd think that billionaires spending tons of money on PACs has no effect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago Exactly permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children) everyone "acting" like he was treated unfairly by the party establishment... Did you somehow forget that the DNC was caught conspiring with the Clinton campaign? Did you forget that when they were sued over it the DNC argued in court that they have the right to choose who would be the Democrat nominee? And that the promise to be impartial in their charter was a mere "political promise" (aka a lie) and they were under no obligation to actually be impartial? No one is "acting" like anything. It's a straight up fact that they admitted to under oath. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) You're just going to ignore the democratic party coordinating all the candidates to drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before super tuesday? Plus having their big media buddies run the story of "the Biden miracle" after getting democratic party stooge Clyburn to endorse Biden and come out ahead in South Carolina (the state that went to Trump in the general election, by the way). Also, the superdelegates made it look like the lead that Clinton had was so insurmountable that it was pointless to turn out for Bernie. If you think these have no effect then, by the same logic, you'd think that billionaires spending tons of money on PACs has no effect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (14 children) everyone "acting" like he was treated unfairly by the party establishment... Did you somehow forget that the DNC was caught conspiring with the Clinton campaign? Did you forget that when they were sued over it the DNC argued in court that they have the right to choose who would be the Democrat nominee? And that the promise to be impartial in their charter was a mere "political promise" (aka a lie) and they were under no obligation to actually be impartial? No one is "acting" like anything. It's a straight up fact that they admitted to under oath. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (13 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Did they override the primary results? Or did the majority of primary voters support Clinton? Most of the people who bitch and moan about it didn't actually bother to vote in the primary. I voted for Bernie. I was out-voted and instead of crying and refusing to vote I voted for Clinton in the general election because Trump was too dangerous while a bunch of Bernie "supporters" didn't. Then they got possy with Harris over her objectively-less-bad position on Israel than Trump's, allowing him to win again. Show up to the primaries to move the party left. But also show up the the general if you lose, because the reality is twice now people's demand of perfection from the Dems has resulted in Trump being president. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago* (12 children) Did the DNC manipulate the vote? Yes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously did. They were caught red handed doing it and never denied that they had. They argued in court that it was their right to manipulate voters in order to get their preferred candidate the nomination. I don't know of any definition of the word "manipulation" that wouldn't encompass their actions. Perhaps even more importantly, do you imagine for even one second that the DNCs policy or strategy has changed even one iota? Do you think they have magically and for no reason at all stopped manipulating things in order to get their preferred candidate nominated? Do you not find it problematic that they admitted in federal court to not being impartial and that they are within their rights to choose the nominee? The rest of your post is irrelevant to my point, those things were not what I was discussing. I was directly responding to your statement which I quoted, but I'll address it anyway. I agree that people should practice harm reduction by voting for the DNC's terrible candidates when the alternative is literal fascism. I did and so did most Bernie supporters, despite them being understandably upset by the DNCs underhanded tactics. I know it's a popular narrative amongst liberals to blame leftists and "Bernie Bros" for the DNCs failures in getting candidates nominated who could actually win against the Orange Fascist, but it's not their fault. It was the racist and sexist "moderates" who were responsible for Trump getting elected, as the data clearly shows. But let's say for arguments sake that it actually was the leftists and Bernie supporters who caused Clinton and Harris to be defeated by Trump. If that were the case, do you really think it would be a wise strategy to keep blaming them for Trump? Do you think doubling down on propping up right wing Democrats and fighting against more progressive Democrats would be a good strategy in such a scenario? Then they got possy with Harris over her "objectively-less-bad position" on Israel than Trump's If you think that Biden and Harris' "softer, gentler, but still clearly genocide" position on Israel was the only criticism that leftists had of them, then you clearly weren't trying to hear what we had to say, and maybe that is part of the problem. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (11 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. They didn't do that. Clinton got more primary votes than Sanders. Biden got.more primary votes than Sanders. And the reason they didn't like Bernie makes some sense. Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He was an independent who decided to run on the Democratic ticket because he knew that running third party would split the vote. But the Dems didn't like the outsider trying to take over the party. They saw it as an attempt at a hostile takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Yeah. That makes a lot of sense given how caucuses work. While Bernie had an early lead, as other candidates were eliminated their supporters went to people other than Bernie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago It was a caucus, not a primary. Caucuses eliminate candidates at each caucus site until someone has a majority. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) My definition of manipulating the vote would be changing the results. Ok? That doesn't disprove anything I said. They didn't do that. How do you know? The parties literally run the elections, and they have already admitted they are biased and believe they have the right to pick the candidate. I wouldn't put it past an organization so corrupt to do exactly that Clearly the corporate sellout, neoliberal centrists aren't going to like the fact that an actual leftist was becoming more popular than them. He would make it harder to stay in the pocket of the megacorps. The point is what you said about them not treating Bernie unfairly is patently false. The point is in a Democracy, especially one where we are limited to two parties, they absolutely should be impartial and listen to what their constituents actually want, and not prop up establishment Dems simply because that's what they would prefer. The point is the biggest hurdle to actual progress is the party that people depend on to make progress. The point is that it's concerning that you don't have a problem with their underhanded tactics. Why did you even vote for Bernie if you are a neoliberal? Are you just saying random shit to try and confuse people? I'm not really sure what your game is or why you are making excuses for disturbing behavior amongst Democrats, but honestly it's gross. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) I'm saying that people need to actually show up and fucking vote for real progressives in the primaries.The GOP is really good at it. The Republican establishment that opposed the Tea Party and Trump were removed by Republican primary voters. 100% of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump stepped down or were primaried the next year. That's how you change a party. Trump is vile and evil, but he also demonstrates that an outsider can transform a party if he can get people to show up for primaries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) So how does telling people that Bernie got a fair shake equate to people needing to vote for progressives? If anything that seems like it could be discouraging people. "Even Bernie couldn't get enough votes and he was treated fairly by the DNC". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) No. It's saying that not enough people are participating in the primaries. I'm saying that if people want change, they should stop bitching after the fact and fucking vote in the primaries, then vote Democrat no matter who the winner is in the primary. Instead, they throw hissy fits that feed the "both sides" bullshit that keeps people from supporting the non-fascists in the general elections. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) There is a way to encourage people to show up and vote for progressives in primaries, without excusing the DNCs undemocratic policies, dismissing the not insubstantial concerns of the left, and outright lying at the same time. Example sentence: "Yes, the DNC did do Bernie dirty and manipulated the process, but we must not let us stop us from showing up to the primaries and making our preferences heard." By doing the opposite of that it only serves to reinforce the idea that centrist neoliberals don't give a fuck about progressives, aren't willing to work with the left even if it means losing their support, and are willing to gaslight and straight up lie to push their agenda. Characterizing people who are understandably upset at the biases, manipulation, and underhanded techniques of party leadership as them "throwing a hissy fit" is myopic, condescending, and ignorant. Both sides are bad, and this is a prime example of why that is. Again, that didn't stop us from practicing harm reduction and voting for the lesser of two evils in the general elections. Even if that weren't the case, blaming leftists for the DNCs fuckups is only going to convince us that we will never get anywhere by trying to get the Democrats on board with progressivism and that a strong 3rd party is our only option if we ever want to have a hope of seeing effective leadership. I don't think that strategy would work in the short term, and it would probably take the Dems and Progressives losing at least one more election to the fascists before we could gain enough support to win. I'd rather the Democrats stop being a barrier to progress, but it looks as if they aren't going to give us a choice and people like you excusing their behavior is only going to help make that a certainty. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) The makeup of the DNC is ultimately decided at the primaries. The people that participate in those primaries are those that determine the party's path. If primary voters had selected Bernie in 2016 or 2020, he'd have been the nominee, and he'd have been President (in 2020 - 2 democrats haven't been elected into office back-to-back since before the Civil War). If he'd have been the nominee and become President, the "party establishment" would have moved left. But the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses rejected him. If you want a progressive, you need to support them up front. But you also absolutely must follow-up with the message that doing anything other than voting for the Dems in the general is a vote for the GOP, even if your favorite primary candidate isn't nominated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago Yes, that's how voting works. None of that changes anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) You're just going to ignore the democratic party coordinating all the candidates to drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before super tuesday? Plus having their big media buddies run the story of "the Biden miracle" after getting democratic party stooge Clyburn to endorse Biden and come out ahead in South Carolina (the state that went to Trump in the general election, by the way). Also, the superdelegates made it look like the lead that Clinton had was so insurmountable that it was pointless to turn out for Bernie. If you think these have no effect then, by the same logic, you'd think that billionaires spending tons of money on PACs has no effect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Clyburn endorsed Cuomo. His endorsement can't even swing a mayoral primary anymore. Thank god. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (23 children) he even got congratulated by Bill Clinton, so I don’t think the DNC you’re talking about really exist in any sizable number. pfft. it's the same dnc that screwed bernie over for hillary; remember when bill got on the plane with the AG? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/04/when_loretta_met_bill_on_the_tarmac_140244.html look, I'd prefer clinton over trump any day. but acting like the DNC is all hunky about non-dem-stalwarts playing in their kiddy pool is pretty ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (6 replies)
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (23 children) he even got congratulated by Bill Clinton, so I don’t think the DNC you’re talking about really exist in any sizable number. pfft. it's the same dnc that screwed bernie over for hillary; remember when bill got on the plane with the AG? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/04/when_loretta_met_bill_on_the_tarmac_140244.html look, I'd prefer clinton over trump any day. but acting like the DNC is all hunky about non-dem-stalwarts playing in their kiddy pool is pretty ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (6 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago Oh yes of course, the party has changed so much in that time! We had the radical communist Biden elected and all our progressive policies were implemented cementing the democrats victories for a decade to come. OH wait, it's still the same party trying to screw over progressives at every turn? You say Obama got on the phone and got all the other democrats to drop out in the primaries in the 2020 race the day before super tuesday and promised them cabinet positions in the admin? Yeah that sure sounds like the party has changed a lot in 10 years and they learned their lessons losing to Trump TWICE permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (14 children) yeah things have gone SO well for libs since then. HEY, it's almost like.... MISTAKES WERE MADE? Or did you prefer this result? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies)
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (12 children) ok ok you're on the right path it hasn't, now follow that line of thought to completion. the DNC keeps pushing half ass candidates instead of popular progressives and keeps losing. so work it out, you maggoty cumfart of a human, come on you're so goddamned close to actual enlightenment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments load more comments (12 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago She actually polled among the most popular politicians in the USA once upon a time, but by 2016 was wallowing in a wave of negatives and her husband Bill Clinton was the last president to create surplus. we've seen repeatedly that dems save the economy only for conservatives and independents to ignore that; happened with Obama, happened with Biden. That doesn't justify the way the progs were ignored, arrogantly. Ffs, she participated in the Civil Rights movement alongside Bernie Sanders. well, yeah, but also, her idol was Dr Henry Killinger. Bernie got arrested for protesting during the civil rights movement (there are pics even!), and never endorsed someone who murdered thousands of innocent cambodians. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (44 children) It's never worked so far, I don't see why the DNC is about to start. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 44 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Except for the most recent presidential election. And when they buried Sanders. And that's just what we know about. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 28 points 1 year ago (10 children) The problem isn't the "DNC" it's the Democratic establishment. That includes all their operatives in media that help keep the masses in check. The sad fact is that not enough voters pay that much attention. The vast majority of the time, the establishment gets their pick. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies) [–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children) 😂😂😂 “The DNC doesn’t pick the candidates.” 🤣🤣🤣 Does anyone else remember the primary we didn’t have for the 2024 election? Or how about how dirty they did our boy Bernie in 2016? Or how about the fact that you can’t even run as a Democrat unless you bring them at least $1m in fundraising? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (8 children) Winning the primary =/= actually getting the support of the party apparatus behind you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children) They aren’t required to fund him, that’s true, but all campaign donations from the DNC are transparent. He can compare his support to Adams’ 2021 purse. They also can’t stop him from fundraising directly. If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You realise you can present historical actions that support your argument without being a complete bellend about it, right? For example, in 2015 Bernie Sanders was becoming a hot favourite to become the public's new pin-up boy for the 2016 presidential run. Unfortunately for him, it is alleged that the DNC had already banked on Hilary Clinton being the primary winner, so their plan may have had it's legs done before they even started. So, it is widely reported that the DNC provided very little support to Sanders for the remainder of his campaign run, while pouring big money and organising competing support behind Clinton, stacking the odds in her favour. In this instance, history tells us that whereas a candidate may be supremely popular, they may not end up getting the support of the political party they represent. (The above is a massive oversimplification to fit into a bite sized lemmy post, so points of discussion are expected) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) We literally just picked the Democratic candidate for NYC mayor. What about that is confusing to you? If the DNC didn’t want him, they shouldn’t have allowed him in the primary. That part is over now. Zohran Mamdani is the Democratic candidate. That’s how primaries work. Stop misinforming people. Most are uninformed on the process as it is. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The Democratic primary was RCV. The general election will be FPTP. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] just2look@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) And how much do you want to bet he will be backed and supported by the DNC during his 'independent' campaign? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) I’ve lived in NY since the 70s. Being on the Democratic ticket is all he needs for the average know-nothing voter. He just beat out six other candidates with a grassroots primary campaign. He doesn’t need their money. He just needed to be in the blue/working families column. But sure, tell me all about how you know everything. I’ll be sure to take notes. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (12 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Except for the most recent presidential election. And when they buried Sanders. And that's just what we know about. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 28 points 1 year ago (10 children) The problem isn't the "DNC" it's the Democratic establishment. That includes all their operatives in media that help keep the masses in check. The sad fact is that not enough voters pay that much attention. The vast majority of the time, the establishment gets their pick. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies) [–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children) 😂😂😂 “The DNC doesn’t pick the candidates.” 🤣🤣🤣 Does anyone else remember the primary we didn’t have for the 2024 election? Or how about how dirty they did our boy Bernie in 2016? Or how about the fact that you can’t even run as a Democrat unless you bring them at least $1m in fundraising? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (8 children) Winning the primary =/= actually getting the support of the party apparatus behind you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children) They aren’t required to fund him, that’s true, but all campaign donations from the DNC are transparent. He can compare his support to Adams’ 2021 purse. They also can’t stop him from fundraising directly. If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Except for the most recent presidential election. And when they buried Sanders. And that's just what we know about. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 28 points 1 year ago (10 children) The problem isn't the "DNC" it's the Democratic establishment. That includes all their operatives in media that help keep the masses in check. The sad fact is that not enough voters pay that much attention. The vast majority of the time, the establishment gets their pick. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) You're not wrong, but where do the retirees get their news? Most of the retirees I know are all way to manipulated by cable news, and that is nothing but 24x7 establishment propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children) Absolutely. They also have no need to vote in favor of minimum wage increases or any other benefits for the working class. Their biggest concern is low taxes on their retirement accounts, which is why they pick the centrist Democrat when voting in the Democratic primary. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (4 children) That's part of it, but not everything. In the 2020 presidential primary the number one issue for everyone, including seniors, was electability. Beating Trump was what Democratic voters cared about, and cable news blared the false but believable message that only a centrist who could capture Republican votes could do that. Another big issue is, oddly enough, minority voters. Minorities are not all that different from other populations in their policy views, but they do tend to be far more committed to the team blue. (Though that commitment is waning). That means that minority conservatives tend to vote in Democratic primaries, giving us more conservative Democratic nominations. I really wish more people would vote on something other than their own perceived self interest. Barring that dream, we need to fix broken perceptions. The people seniors and others are voting for, in both primaries and general elections, don't actually serve the interests of their voters. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) The sad thing is that the primary process is entirely controlled by the state parties. There is nothing in the way to reform but Democrats. There ought to be crazy outrage that the Democrats run such an undemocratic process, but too many Democratic supporters bristle at any criticism of the party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children) 😂😂😂 “The DNC doesn’t pick the candidates.” 🤣🤣🤣 Does anyone else remember the primary we didn’t have for the 2024 election? Or how about how dirty they did our boy Bernie in 2016? Or how about the fact that you can’t even run as a Democrat unless you bring them at least $1m in fundraising? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago We had a primary in 2024. With the party suing as many opponents off as many state ballots as they could. There was only one candidate that made it to the ballot in all 50 states. Like party leadership wanted. And dear god did centrists lose their absolute shit at people who voted uncommitted in their pretend primaries. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (8 children) Winning the primary =/= actually getting the support of the party apparatus behind you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children) They aren’t required to fund him, that’s true, but all campaign donations from the DNC are transparent. He can compare his support to Adams’ 2021 purse. They also can’t stop him from fundraising directly. If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children) They aren’t required to fund him, that’s true, but all campaign donations from the DNC are transparent. He can compare his support to Adams’ 2021 purse. They also can’t stop him from fundraising directly. If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) If he makes it clear that they are withholding financial support given to prior candidates, then people will donate to him directly, and the DNC will be publicly called out for favoring past candidates. That’s the last thing they need after the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz/Hillary Clinton scandal. I really don't think they care. These people have no shame. I read that 40% of the leading Democrats that endorsed Cuomo had previously called for his resignation after his numerous sexual assaults came to light. The party that lauds itself as the champion of and defender of women's and minority rights rallied hard to support a corrupt sexual predator over a Muslim, simply because he was progressive instead of a conservative. Hell, arch sex pest Bill Clinton endorsed Cuomo. These people have no shame. "Calling people out" or "slamming" people means nothing. If calling people out changed their behavior, Cuomo, who sexually assaulted at least a dozen women, would have never been seen in public again. Seriously. How can you think that leaders that openly endorse a sexual molester give a single fuck about being called out publicly for their bad behavior? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) but Zohran has no chill. what the fuck does this even mean? honest query permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I would take it to mean that if they start to do him dirty he won't be passive about it like Bernie, and he'll put them on blast with proof of how they're rat fucking him compared to their preferred candidate. I loved Bernie but man he should have swung low when the DNC started their shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago would enjoy seeing that... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) He will not be quiet about corruption. He’ll make sure every last person in the nation hears about their wrongdoings, and use it as leverage for his campaign. Watch videos of him debating Cuomo. Not one of Cuomo’s attacks go unanswered. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago this would make me happy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You realise you can present historical actions that support your argument without being a complete bellend about it, right? For example, in 2015 Bernie Sanders was becoming a hot favourite to become the public's new pin-up boy for the 2016 presidential run. Unfortunately for him, it is alleged that the DNC had already banked on Hilary Clinton being the primary winner, so their plan may have had it's legs done before they even started. So, it is widely reported that the DNC provided very little support to Sanders for the remainder of his campaign run, while pouring big money and organising competing support behind Clinton, stacking the odds in her favour. In this instance, history tells us that whereas a candidate may be supremely popular, they may not end up getting the support of the political party they represent. (The above is a massive oversimplification to fit into a bite sized lemmy post, so points of discussion are expected) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) We literally just picked the Democratic candidate for NYC mayor. What about that is confusing to you? If the DNC didn’t want him, they shouldn’t have allowed him in the primary. That part is over now. Zohran Mamdani is the Democratic candidate. That’s how primaries work. Stop misinforming people. Most are uninformed on the process as it is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You realise you can present historical actions that support your argument without being a complete bellend about it, right? For example, in 2015 Bernie Sanders was becoming a hot favourite to become the public's new pin-up boy for the 2016 presidential run. Unfortunately for him, it is alleged that the DNC had already banked on Hilary Clinton being the primary winner, so their plan may have had it's legs done before they even started. So, it is widely reported that the DNC provided very little support to Sanders for the remainder of his campaign run, while pouring big money and organising competing support behind Clinton, stacking the odds in her favour. In this instance, history tells us that whereas a candidate may be supremely popular, they may not end up getting the support of the political party they represent. (The above is a massive oversimplification to fit into a bite sized lemmy post, so points of discussion are expected) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) We literally just picked the Democratic candidate for NYC mayor. What about that is confusing to you? If the DNC didn’t want him, they shouldn’t have allowed him in the primary. That part is over now. Zohran Mamdani is the Democratic candidate. That’s how primaries work. Stop misinforming people. Most are uninformed on the process as it is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The Democratic primary was RCV. The general election will be FPTP. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The Democratic primary was RCV. The general election will be FPTP. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] just2look@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) And how much do you want to bet he will be backed and supported by the DNC during his 'independent' campaign? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] just2look@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) And how much do you want to bet he will be backed and supported by the DNC during his 'independent' campaign? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) I’ve lived in NY since the 70s. Being on the Democratic ticket is all he needs for the average know-nothing voter. He just beat out six other candidates with a grassroots primary campaign. He doesn’t need their money. He just needed to be in the blue/working families column. But sure, tell me all about how you know everything. I’ll be sure to take notes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) I’ve lived in NY since the 70s. Being on the Democratic ticket is all he needs for the average know-nothing voter. He just beat out six other candidates with a grassroots primary campaign. He doesn’t need their money. He just needed to be in the blue/working families column. But sure, tell me all about how you know everything. I’ll be sure to take notes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) So, now it's up to centrists who really wanted their skeevy sex pest in office to actually do what they have been preaching ever since puma pac failed to elect McCain. They need to vote blue no matter who. They won't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago I'll be happy when the election has run its course without the party engaging in the sort of fuckery they can't ever seem to stop themselves from engaging in. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago I'll be happy when the election has run its course without the party engaging in the sort of fuckery they can't ever seem to stop themselves from engaging in. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago I'll be happy when the election has run its course without the party engaging in the sort of fuckery they can't ever seem to stop themselves from engaging in. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago Yes, until an internal smear campaign takes them down, and the whole thing comes apart from petty infighting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago Cuomo is running as independent to split the vote and promote a republican candidate. yhea Democracy my ass permalink fedilink source parent