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[+] 131 points 1 year ago (105 children)
  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    I am a Linux user, I dual boot Kubuntu and Windows.

    On Friday I bought a new game on steam, checked on protondb and it is platinum, tried to launch it and it failed. I tried 4 different proton compatability modes and it failed to launch each time. While I am a sysadmin and am well capable of troubleshooting it, I really just wanted to play that game so I rebooted into windows.

    If I hadn't had that other win11 SSD in my machine, I would have had to not play that game because I had no energy to troubleshoot that on a friday night after fighting with linux all day at work.

    Tldr: some times Linux is a seemless as Windows, but not always, even when it is supposed to be and is for others. Even if you have that activate windows watermark.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    Can confirm. Just switched to Linux about 2 weeks ago. I am happy enough, but there was a brutal learning curve. This was for a distro that is user friendly, too. I was able to install just fine, but actually getting my environment set up is an ongoing process.

    Many Linux distros are getting there, but they still aren't ready for casual users.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I'm curious what setup you have to do?
    I do some customization of KDE on my desktop, but for my laptops it's always install and use without the need to setup anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Which distros are you using on laptop? I have a gaming laptop, I've been procrastinating on the switch because I dont want to lose some things. I really enjoy the control software for the lights and fans that it came pre-installed with, for example

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    If anything, Linux gives you far more control over those things and it's usually much easier to do than in Windows.

    I've been using Bazzite for gaming for over a year now and it's great. It is immutable though, so while you can do just about anything you can do in other distros, the process can be different.

    I've seen a lot of people suggesting CachyOS lately for gaming, if you want something that isn't immutable.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't use my laptops for gaming, only casual web browsing and the occasional 3d print or code script.
    I have used fedora in the past but a failed update broke it, so I'm using cachyos now.
    The only issue I had with the laptop, is that it's recognized as a 2-in-1 and sometimes would switch to the tablet mode which disabled the keyboard. Either I found how to disable it or cachy doesn't have the issue.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Wouldn’t you have the same experience if you moved from iOS to Android, never having used Android before? Does that make Android not ready for casual use?

    If you have used Windows your whole life, there will definitely be a learning curve getting used to Linux and whatever desktop environment you choose to use.

    I personally have better experience having casual users use Linux than Windows.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In fact, one has a similar learning curve going from Android to iOS (as I learned when I transitioned to iPhone) even if iOS is broadly considered more “user friendly.”

    I think you’re onto something. Switching to Windows would be painful to anyone used to Linux regardless of all the philosophical differences simply because the OS works differently. Lord knows I despise MacOS despite people who use it saying, “it just works.”

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I was only using "from iOS to Android" as an example. I believe it would be equally difficult going from Android to iOS. As you, I also despise using MacOS. It's a struggle, because I'm not used to it in any way.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.

    I don't think I've ever followed that workflow to be honest. Except for when doing something niche and way above and beyond something a casual user would do.

    Open the software center, search what you want. Click install. Done. I use the terminal to the same effect but that's by preference. Installing packages as you described is not at all recommended... They won't update with the system.

    The "add to desktop" thing really depends on your Desktop Environment too. GNOME not really, KDE and most others yeah.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I don't think the learning curve is any harder than someone who's learning Windows for the first time.

    It's just different. Honestly in some ways simpler IMO. But if you were a life long Mac user and touched Windows for the first time today you'd probably have a rougher time I think.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    get excited for a random system update to boot you to a GRUB rescue console soon!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    When was the last time you used Linux? And what distro was it? Your complaints are a decade out of date.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    this exact situation happened about 3 months ago to my partner on a modern distro

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Just curious here.... nvidia + kernel update and not using dkms?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    yes, Nvidia, and who knows for the rest. i think it was Debian-based, maybe Mint. they went back to Win11 after barely a month because it was so rough, despite years of experience with Linux.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This is what I meant by my comment here.

    Thats a hardware related annoyance that I've even seen on commercially distributed versions of Linux, and if it were set up correctly, you wouldn't have even noticed (aside from a bunch of scrolling text during the next boot when the new kernel was loaded). I had a client where they couldn't even get to the console of the server for this reason. Once set up correctly though, those updates have chugged away in the background... but I digress.

    I'm assuming you (and your partner) have no trouble at all navigating around and using linux, it was the (poorly managed) update process that gave you headaches. I think that is a perfectly reasonable complaint.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Its mostly because of what nvidia does - the newer stuff has open source drivers, but this is a more recent thing (past year or so), but a good chunk of their libraries are still closed, their firmware is still closed, and anything not supported by the newer open source kernel modules has to use the proprietary drivers.

    This is, unfortunately, outside of the control of the Linux kernel. And nvidia can be made to work just fine (I have a bunch of quadro cards for example) without dropping to the console, but that first setup to make it that way takes some knowledge. That, to me, is the big problem.

    Thats also why you'll see a lot of intel gpu's and amd gpu's in the linux world, while nvidia made that switch I mentioned to open on the new stuff, that was in 2024. AMD started their effort in 2015, its much more mature, and intel had open drivers for a bit over 10 years before that.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    While I understand, that is what continues the problem btw. Supporting the company doing what is needed to make a switch to Linux easier is what will take away the problem, for better or worse.

    I'll also note I have regular issues Windows machines and GPUs, honestly its more of a pain in the ass to me. Specifically multi-monitor configs appearing as a single desktop - incredibly easy on Linux, while on windows I have to use Mosaic, and windows updates constantly break those configs. Among quite a few other things, but thats different territory.

    I have no qualms about recommending/advocating for Linux, because I know quite well what I can and can't do with it, as well as how to explain how to set it up to work easily. I have a lot of reservations about Windows use, because it can be such an absolute nightmare in some situations, and unlike Linux, there is no ability for me to fully take control and set things up right the first time.

    "Avoiding all that bullshit" is extremely dependent on what bullshit you're avoiding.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    No? I just said it would be nicer if you precised the name of the distro when you have an issue. This way I'm less likely to recommand an unstable distro. That's it.

    You obviously can't be expected to know what distro is stable or not, I don't either

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  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (15 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Why is it acceptable to use command line to setup Windows, but not Linux?

    Bottom line is, if you're not willing to put the minimal effort in, then you shouldn't ever complain about Windows being shit.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    No, seems pretty clear to me.

    and they are certainly much harder to migrate to than checks notes pressing two keys and running a command to get a local account.

    Then literally immediately, in the same comment:

    Good luck getting more than a few hours into a fresh linux install without needing to use a CLI, lol

    Good luck installing your pirated Windows without needing to use the CLI, lol.

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  • [+] 66 points 1 year ago (38 children)
  • [+] 22 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I also use windows for work. Shits stupid. Search in the start bar for an app that's installed on your PC? Let's open edge and show you web results. Want to copy something out of teams? Here's a copilot link you just accidentally clicked. Thanks for accepting that TOS.

    I'd love some say on my work computer but alas I'm a grunt.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The administration tools are just as bad.

    I want to add a user to a group, so I bring up Entra and search Groups, too bad it's a Mail-enabled Security group, so now I have to do it in Exchange admin and enable a separate admin role for myself.

    I want to disable a device in Intune, so I search for device XYZ in Intune and there's no disable button. You have to figure out who's the primary user on the device, look them up, find XYZ in their device assignments and there's the disable button.

    Sure you can do it in Powershell or Graph and hope they haven't deprecated whatever module you were using last week or changed the process entirely.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You need to dedicate time to adopt and learn how to get a local account on Windows and clear out the bullshit you don't want.

    I recently switched to Linux. At first I was surprised at how easy it was to set up and get working, then I was annoyed at having to look up how to do every little thing I know how to do on Windows and considered switching back.

    Then I booted into Windows and in less than 10 minutes was fed up the whole OS. I realized I had to look up things just as often as I was on Linux, but in Linux it was because I didn't know where it was, where as on Windows it was actively hidden from me and fighting me every step of the way.
    Windows is in no way easier, It's just the struggle you've gotten so used to fighting with every single day that you've forgotten it exists.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    My wife is not technical and has no interest in adopting and learning anything.

    The web works the same way regardless of the OS, and LibreOffice has all the same features as Word that she uses.

    The "hard part" is choosing and upgrading hardware, and maybe installation (depending on distribution).

    I mention this because I think we should evaluate these differently. With a preloaded desktop/laptop, I've had no issues with anyone that actually relates to Linux (except my BIL who was trying to build an arcade stick for gaming).

    Explaining to my other BIL how to select hardware for his custom build, that took some time, as did guiding him through the installation.

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  • [+] 18 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    i write often and libreoffice writer is difficult to say the least, not because of lack of features but a lack of most ‘little things’ and ‘tweaks’.

    I think you're missing the fact that you are doing more 'expert' things than most here. The majority of the time, my wife opens a document she made once, saves as a new file (no, she's not using templates - don't get me started), and writes her invoice. She then PDFs it and sends it via email.

    She does the same thing with Calc and a previously made blank "monthly calendar". Opens the blank, saves for the client, enters in the days and renames the month at the top, notes what she'll be doing for them on each day with an hour estimate, PDF and email.

    That is the kind of thing most people do.

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  • [+] 38 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't disagree in general. However, my mom has been running Linux with a Windows XP skin for almost 8 years now without knowing she's using Linux. Literally just keeps her from running a random .exe and she does everything on a browser anyway.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    In my experience, it's usually power users or basic users with very specific application requirements, who have trouble moving between operating systems. There's usually a FOSS alternative to those applications, but often requires reworking a workflow or upskilling more than they want to. But they're still basic users so it's more a speed bump than a road block.

    So yeah, most people can switch to MacOS without an issue, and the vast majority of those can switch to a distro like Fedora or Ubuntu and quickly feel comfortable.

    Power users get stuck in this situation where they've learned how to do advanced things in Windows, have things tweaked to support more complex and peculiar workflows, but often don't understand the actual concepts behind them. And even if they do understand the concepts, they still have to learn the alternatives in a new OS, and rebuild their workflows. Now, there's a lot more ability to learn behind the scenes about the why and how with Linux and BSD, so I'd argue they'd be better off to just suck it up and get started, and they'll be better off before long.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Well, the whole reason people have to "adopt and learn" is because M$ bought their way onto virtually every new PC sold back in the 90s, so people's first experience would be their "operating system."
    Talk about leveraging anchoring bias.
    I'd argue you'd have a hard time selling Windows to people if you were honest about it.

    For just 145€ you get:

    • an operating system that assumes you're an inept idiot
    • ads in your application launcher
    • a screenshot taken every minute, which gets stored outside your control and analysed by "AI"
    • an invasive "assistant" that listens in on your microphone at all times
    • forced to create an account to log in to "your" machine, so we can collect even more personal data

    Especially when the alternative is free and let's you do whatever you want with your hardware. And if you happen to misconfigure something you get to be an adult about it and learn from your mistakes.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If someone is already informed enough to care about having a local account under Windows, seek out ways to circumvent the normal account procedure and feels comfortable applying edits to the registry, I think they have already excluded themselves from the category of people who are unwilling to invest time and effort to get their computer/OS running how they want.

    What you wrote may apply to the general public, but not for the circumstances discussed in the post you're replying to.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It's true. You run one single command in cmd, then follow the prompts. It literally highlights what you probably want too, nevermind the guide online. Even Linux mint you still have to learn where stuff is and what it's called. That's not hard, by any means, but this is literally a single command and then you're back to your routine.

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