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[–] 80 points 4 months ago (11 children)

do people know you can pay for custom pieces

Like, if a door knocker is that important to you, like an upper-middle class 19th century homeowner, you can just... pay 500$ or so for a nice one. I promise you that the 19th century homeowner paid much more for their's, adjusted for inflation.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Would it have been a custom piece in the 19th century though? They would have been in demand enough that it seems reasonable that they could have been hand-made in enough bulk to make them better priced than getting it made fully custom now.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    it's not like there was an economy of scale to speak of, the ones in demand were likely the equivalent of $500 today. a door knocker is still purely a luxury item.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    There kind of was

    There would have been hundreds of people in the community who spent their lives doing metal working and casting

    Nowadays for a vision job like that’s you’ll have to find one of a handful of specialists in your area.

    Same with glass blowing and other artisanal work.

    And good chance this knocker was made from a mold.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    can't make a model like that with a solid mold. it's too far from a convex hull. you need to sand-cast it, cut off the pouring channels, then polish up the rough surfaces. then you need to heat up the knocker part in order to bend it into shape in the mouth. even if you cast multiple heads at once that's several days of highly skilled work per product. that doesn't come cheap.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You can simplify this and eliminate the forging by just casting more parts and assembling them. From looking at it I thought the teeth were removable and the fastener is hidden by the beard but other similar cast knockers seem to just make the ring out of two parts. https://www.chairish.com/product/14868315/antique-satyr-face-wram-horns-iron-door-knocker

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    They did have an economy of scale at least to a degree. Manufacturies were lousy in much of Europe by the high medieval to late age of sail depending on region, and the Portuguese spread said manufacturing techniques as far as India.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Were peasants buying luxury door knockers? You are probably only seeing this because its good enough to have survived. The rich would have been able to pay for it but the rest of us it just doesn't make sense to.

    But today, you can get some fairly nice looking ones for under £50. Not sure if the style goes well with modern PVC doors though.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Peasants? No. Freeman and traders? Maybe. It heavily depended on region and time, but for example in my area of SoCal you see brass works of roughly similar quality from the Victorian period floating about in quantities that don't make sense unless they were available to at least the upper lower class.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Generally, high-quality pieces would have been made by artisans (and thus usually custom), not factory-made. The high demand meant that the skills to make these pieces were more commonly pursued by woodworkers, thus making a larger labor pool (and so, cheaper labor), but the technology available and higher price of resources means that it would have required more expense in the form of materials and more man-hours to create the product.

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  • [–] 46 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Why is the latest trend on the global information sharing network to nonsensically obfuscate the information that you want to share?

    I fucking hate this shit.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    We're censoring "useless" now?

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  • [–] 65 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Is "useless" a bad word now too?

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago

    I would be shocked if simple door knockers weren't common side-by-side with the ornate door knockers throughout history. But being simpler and of a lower quality, they would neither be as notable nor endure until today.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Why are we censoring usernames

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  • [+] 12 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Art tends to be better when people are miserable actually. Most great works were made when people weren't doing so hot.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    We still create plenty of art, but you need to look for it. There are artists out there creating a lot of pretty things, find them and if you like their work... Buy something of theirs. I have plenty of little art pieces at home, even my drinking glasses are ones that I am terrified of losing because they're all custom made and far prettier than anything I see in stores stocking mass-produced stuff. They do freak some people out a bit though, because they're spider themed.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago*

    we keep moving the craft of being human into that of being technology

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    I like the right one better.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    They want the AI to create the left one, then blame artists for the right one.

    The reason behind the change is industrialization. The right one is just a regular handle with wider appeal, the left one needs more specialized equipment and is only applicable to people wanting that style of handle, not a handle of function.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    My take is that capitalism is the cause.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    But aren't people with art degrees the ones designing the new sterile, soulless things?

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  • [–] 26 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    That's because the people signing their paltry checks demand it.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Then demand something else as a customer.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Not how any of that works, but good try?

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  • [+] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    No, the dominant factor in the world is profitability. It doesn't matter what the demand for beautiful things is, the things that are the most profitable that most people will buy will dominate. Lowest common denominator type stuff.

    Artful things cost more to produce than simple geometric shapes. So, in order for the artful things to have the same profitability as the simple things, they have to cost more money. Costing more means that less people will buy it, so it actually needs to cost even more to remain competitive. Bish bash bosh, beautiful becomes synonymous with wealth and then it needs to compete with the trendy expensive things that the wealthy buy. If this is how the world works, then you'd expect things like this to be common among the wealthy in times of it being a trend. Otherwise, you'd expect it to be niche or old.

    (Looks out at the world) Yep, elaborate knockers are out of fashion, and all of the rest are niche or old. Interesting, that.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    There's a beauty in simplicity

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    How about in neither willing not capable to pay a few k for a fucking door knob just for it to be custom made and beautiful.

    This dip shit is comparing what would nowadays be Trumps or Musks door.

    How about we create a world in which you didn't need a degree for beautiful things to be created?

    I don't know why I find this so infuriating to me, it feels soo wrong on so many levels.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Does the one on the left keep the religious loonies away?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago*

    One kid with an art degree, another on the way. Art is life.

    When we are free to pursue what our heart desires, more art happens.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I hate that minimalist designs aren't acknowledged as artistic.

    In my opinion, it is no different than the ai idiots who think all art needs to be hyperrealistic; That good art is hyperrealistic.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    When you alnost can't have anything but 'minimalism' (not sure if most of the things that you can get count as minimalist and not just extremely utilitarian) it kind of destroys the feeling.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    (not sure if most of the things that you can get count as minimalist and not just extremely utilitarian)

    Definitely utilitarian. Stuff that's actually minimalist requires thoughtful design and precision construction and is therefore actually pretty fucking expensive.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Idk, I am not an artist or anything. I just look at stuff and like different things in different moments and settings, like everyone else.

    I am just sick of the disrespect for art in general. I am not a good critic but I am good enough to acknowledge that art is not only made for me and my taste.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I mean yeah there is some art in pure utility if you like such things, but most modern consruction is very bland, there isn't even cheap 'unnecessary' elements, no ornaments, zero decorative elements that were commonplace even after ww2.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    The funny thing is there's almost always this, "our society has forgotten how to make elegant art" cycle that people keep complaining about. Rejecting modernist art is an old practice.

    There was a post about how the Nazis called their modern art "degenerate art" and they wanted a return to some weird traditional ideal they had.

    People all over now complain about anything symbolic looking that isn't dead obvious in what it represents, and that sort of modernism can be seen a hundred years ago too. You could take some 1920s art and put it in front of someone and ask if they like modern 2020s art and many would probably complain about the minimalism in some art deco.

    The fact that some people reject it so much and think it's too non traditional IMO is one of the most interesting and powerful aspects. It made a lot of people feel revulsion, and not because it's done badly, but because it doesn't conform to their traditional ideas of what art is. They don't get it, they don't want to get it, they don't want to think about why it works, and don't want to understand it. It kind of did something not a lot art manages if it gets that reaction out of people.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    That knocker is almost perfect

    There just needs to be an even tinnier knocker in the tiny demon’s mouth

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    Having an art degree does not make one an artist.

    Not saying that art degrees are useless, just that they don't inherently result in any art being created.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Zbrush and a 3d printer could fix that. But you would need something heavy on the ring bottom to knock properly.
    Or add a sensor to detect movement and inform your homeassistant.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Have won in cost, and have lost in cost.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago

    How many of those art degree holders could even design such a knocker today? This is way different from just producing Rorschach images or clumping-together-random-stuff "sculptures".

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