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[–] 53 points 4 months ago (1 child)

Enforcing this ban will be a privacy nightmare for people.

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  • [–] 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Which is the idea, especially assuming it also targets the decentralized networks like the Fediverse. Like, will self-hosting Fediverse instances, and self-hosting anything at all even if it's completely offline suddenly be criminalized there?

    And what about open-source OSes like Linux and BSD? Will those also be targeted or will websites start blocking those OSes in UK borders now?

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    Time to be criminals in the eyes of the law. Young people will just use a VPN anyway.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    They're 100% going to come for VPNs as well.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Apple is already locked down. Googles already inching at locking down Android phones and governments seem primed to facilitate that. Clamping down on VPNs can be a driver for that. Being way more restrictive on routers too like the US and it's foreign router bans

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Even Windows is KYC'd by default as consumer Windows generally requires an MS account now and setting up an MS account requires your DOB and may some day even require a face scan or your ID, and in addition there's been active attempts to restrict Linux and BSD although the two laws of which I speak in Cali and Colorado ultimately exempted FOSS from their scope, and as for the Fediverse, the FBI raided a Mastodon server a while back so even that isn't entirely safe, and Windows 365 is facilitating thin clients connected to rented servers, plus the ability to build a PC is actively being pushed out of reach of everyone who isn't rich.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    It's literal insanity how many people can't see a consumer VPN ban as the logical next step. I swear most of the population have the critical thought of an NPC.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    It is true, but you don't necessarily have to be a dick about it. The real question is, now, do we declare the internet dead? Are there alternatives? Are there ways to push back? It seems to be a worldwide move, so we're all in the hole.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    VPNs are next on the chopping block.

    Corporations and the government will still be allowed to use them, but they'll outlaw VPNs for average citizens.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    They will specifically outlaw privacy protecting VPN services. You will still be able to buy a commercial VPN service, handing over your ID to the VPN company, which will have to track everything its users do for compliance.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Seems kinda like a pecking order. Target the young ones. And by prohibiting kids, you can ID everyone.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    That's the thing. I'm not only perfectly fine with getting anyone under the age of 16 off the Internet, I'd also like to see everyone under the age of 21 off the Internet. But it has to be done in a way that utilizes the strength of modern technology and protects our privacy. It's extremely doable to achieve this, and governments know this, but getting kids off the Internet is not what the government is trying to do.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    YouTube too? There’s an abundance of tutorials over there…

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah that seems extreme. I wouldn’t mind if they only took away the comments section

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    YouTube does provide the ability to livestream, and it sounds like livestreaming is one thing that they're upset about, not just commenting.

    searches

    Ironically, apparently 10 Downing Street livestreams there:

    https://youtube.com/@10downingstreet/streams

    EDIT: And on Twitter, but that's also targeted.

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/2066416751848706064

    I guess that there's Sky News:

    https://news.sky.com/video/watch-labour-conference-live-as-pm-to-make-crucial-speech-13441407

    And the BBC:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c24p9d7en65t

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    Guess some mid level government officials was sick of the Yo mum jokes in COD... About as stupid as the UK porn ban.

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  • [–] 32 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Rather than regulate the cancer that is social media companies, they want to ban youths from being easily able to contact one another outside of regular texting and phone calls.

    Probably not a coincidence that the UK just ruled that protesting the genocide in Palestine somehow constitutes "terrorism". Seems all these laws against young people on social media all sparked after it became apparent that most all young people oppose Israel. Not a coincidence.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    In defense of the UK government, they didn't ban protesting the genocide in Palestine, they banned expressing support for a specific organisation which protested the genocide in Palestine by breaking into a military base and damaging equipment. It's an important distinction, and to claim otherwise is spreading misinformation.

    That said, this ban is very short sighted and seems out of touch, I expect it'll just create a social divide between those who find a way around it and those who don't, which may be worse than the problem they're trying to solve.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    One day someone who knows his arse from his elbow will be in a position to make decisions, but not today.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    We've been waiting for someone like that for a long time. I can't even remember the previous actually-competent politician.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    Alan Moore sure knows his stuff about the British government.

    Why are they straight up trying to imitate the V4Vendetta?

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Props for posting the government announcement directly btw

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    This is all silly. Just make parents feel responsible for their children. Settle with social media companies to start a joint fund that pays for PSAs about safe social media use on kids tv shows and stuff. The tobacco and alcohol industries have to do it, so why not social media? Though we will end up with an unstoppable 15 second ad before every YouTube video about not sharing personal info in the comments or DMs.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago
    [+] -7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (17 children)

    I get that many view this as government overreach, but in this case I'm OK with it. If it hurts these platforms then so be it. A 10 year old has no business being on tiktok. I've got kids and I can police this stuff myself, to an extent, but I've seen many neglectful parents who just leave their kids to their own devices (figuratively and litterally). If this prevents children being prematurely exposed to these garbage platforms then I don't personally see the issue, but I'm open to reasonable counter arguments.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    A ten year old was already barred from using this social media. Generally you have to be over the age of 13 to engage with these social media platforms.

    But the big take away here is that instead of these platforms making their product not-addictive and generally safer, they will use this as an opportunity to force legislation that allows them more access to everyone's personal information (and invades everyone's privacy) because the law says they have to to enforce age verification to "protect children'. And since that data is their main product that they sell outright or sell access to for ad aggregation, and because they have proven to be incredibly bad as anonymizing and safeguarding that information, this is literally worse for everyone, especially children who's data is valuable because they don't have bad credit or other marks on their identities yet and that means their identities (if stolen and used for illegal activities) can detrimentally effect them for the rest of their lifetime.

    That's what you're advocating for when you agree with this kind of government overreach. The companies have this worked out. When your identity is stolen they give you some credit monitoring and go on operating as if nothing happened. Maybe (and that maybe is doing Atlas levels of heavy lifting here) they end up in a class action lawsuit and the people affected get $12.

    I have seen literally no ID verification law that combats this or addresses it in any way. And that's before we get to governments using this to surveil the general populace.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    I lt feels like there's two separate issues: whether children should be allowed on social media, and how age verification should be implemented.

    It's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about privacy, data collection, and mission creep. Those are legitimate concerns that any age-verification scheme should address. But it doesn't follow that because some verification methods are bad, we should abandon the goal of keeping children off social media.

    The fact that platforms already prohibit under-13s isn't much of an argument when everyone knows those rules are routinely ignored. If a law is unenforced and ineffective, pointing to its existence doesn't solve the problem.

    You also seem to assume that age verification necessarily means handing social media companies copies of passports and driving licences. It doesn't have to. There are privacy-preserving approaches where a third party verifies age and only returns a yes/no answer. Whether those systems are good enough is a fair debate, but it's not accurate to suggest that the only option is mass identity collection by Facebook and similar companies.

    I also don't think it's fair to characterise supporters of these measures as advocating government overreach or surveillance. Many parents simply look at the evidence around addictive design, bullying, self-harm content, and compulsive usage among children and conclude that some form of restriction is justified. They may be wrong about the solution, but they're not necessarily indifferent to privacy or civil liberties.

    Finally, if we accept that social media companies have failed to make their products safe for children, then regulation becomes the obvious next question. Saying that platforms should design better products doesn't tell us what to do when they don't.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    There are no privacy preserving age verification methods beyond "just trust us we pinky promise we won't track you or keep your data". And I certainly don't trust the government that tried to backdoor iCloud and is currently trying to mandate government spyware to be installed on all devices

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    lt feels like there's two separate issues: whether children should be allowed on social media, and how age verification should be implemented.

    Let's take that at face value. There are portions of the internet that children absolutely shouldn't have access to and that varies depending on age. But since this is about social media, let's be realistic here. If it's 'bad' for everyone regardless of age it should in theory just be banned outright? Or is this subjective. Is the fediverse better than Facebook and Instagram for the average teen?

    How age verification should be implemented and how it is being "implemented'' are two very different things and the main take away there is thus far it has been implemented by people with no technical knowledge of how such a thing should be implemented, and who have a vested interest in using any such framework for surveillance of the general population. Since we cannot trust them to do one without the other there should be a third option. What's the third option? I have suggestions but people generally don't like them.

    It's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about privacy, data collection, and mission creep. Those are legitimate concerns that any age-verification scheme should address. But it doesn't follow that because some verification methods are bad, we should abandon the goal of keeping children off social media.

    The fact is I would challenge the people of Lemmy to show me where this has been implemented thus far that they do address privacy concerns (lip service doesn't count). I have yet to see a government entity the world over who has done this properly.

    People here do try to address them and brainstorm them here all the time and there are many suggestions but the fact is none of those ideas are being used because the entities implementing them are not doing it for the reasons they say they are and the suggestions directly impact their ability to use such apparatus for their true purpose.

    The fact that platforms already prohibit under-13s isn't much of an argument when everyone knows those rules are routinely ignored. If a law is unenforced and ineffective, pointing to its existence doesn't solve the problem.

    Why is that law unenforceable and what makes this law particularly more enforceable?

    You also seem to assume that age verification necessarily means handing social media companies copies of passports and driving licences. It doesn't have to. There are privacy-preserving approaches where a third party verifies age and only returns a yes/no answer. Whether those systems are good enough is a fair debate, but it's not accurate to suggest that the only option is mass identity collection by Facebook and similar companies.

    I am aware that it doesn't have to, but I am also aware that so far it has generally done that, either by providing that information to a third party for verification or by requiring the use of biometric data to do the same. For the same reason I don't want my or my kids ID being uploaded to a cloud service for verification, I also don't want my or my child's face scans being sent to entities that will face no repercussions when they fail to safeguard that information. Doesn't matter if that third party is a government service or not.

    I also don't think it's fair to characterise supporters of these measures as advocating government overreach or surveillance. Many parents simply look at the evidence around addictive design, bullying, self-harm content, and compulsive usage among children and conclude that some form of restriction is justified. They may be wrong about the solution, but they're not necessarily indifferent to privacy or civil liberties

    They do though either because they are unaware of what such measures actually entail/how enforceable they are, and think that it sounds good so it must be good, or because they are willing to sacrifice their privacy for the sake of the children possibly because they believe there's no other way. I didn't make a statement in favor of such measures without looking into it but lots of people do.

    Finally, if we accept that social media companies have failed to make their products safe for children, then regulation becomes the obvious next question. Saying that platforms should design better products doesn't tell us what to do when they don't.

    I don't think most social media companies failed so much as they did exactly what they set out to do. They want their products to be addictive and bad for you because they can keep you in that loop using their products if they do and that means they can profit off all the information they already collect about you. And they want to start their users as early and young as possible because that maximizes their ability to gather information and sell ad space.

    But further, why is it that laws prohibiting access to social media for those 13 and under are routinely ignored? If they already can't enforce the law they have, what makes this law more enforceable?

    Why don't they develope and enforce laws about parental control use? Why not limit the access parents are allowed to give their children to the internet?

    Why not educate people as a whole on internet use, parental controls, and social media literacy/ social media data collection?

    Why not use anonymized tokens instead of ID verification or facial recognition/biometric data collection?

    Why not outlaw addictive algorithms in social media full stop?

    This isn't me saying that governments shouldn't make laws to regulate social media or protect their people, including their children. It's me noting that they are going about it the way they are because they have an ulterior motive that cannot be achieved without invasive data collection that violates privacy.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    The place that is both technically possible, and desirable from a privacy protection view, to do this restriction is on the devices used by children, not on the entire internet.

    Parent clicks "this device is for a child" and the device filters the internet and automatically uses safe search, etc, in a way that cannot be disabled without the parents pin. It can advertise its self to online services as a youth device (thats how google safe search already can work). The parent is in control and the child gets protected. Its not rocket science.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    This is nonsense. “Social networks” started off as homebrew unregulated unmoderated forums, and there’s arguably more ways than ever to spin up your own. This is what kids will do if we ban rather than regulate. It’s literally the same for every prohibition.

    People are arguing that these measures are not only myopic and pointless, but they are dangerously stupid to support wrt government overreach and surveillance. And that affects everyone, especially the children they are so keen on “protecting” right now.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    That doesn't address the argument being made.

    It's entirely reasonable to worry about privacy, data collection, and government overreach. Any age-verification system creates new infrastructure for proving identity or age online, and people are right to scrutinise that. But it also doesn't follow that every attempt at age restriction is therefore equivalent to mass surveillance or should be dismissed out of hand.

    Likewise, pointing out that children will find ways around restrictions isn't, by itself, an argument against having restrictions. Kids have always circumvented rules. The relevant question is whether a measure meaningfully reduces access or harm, not whether it is perfectly enforceable.

    I also don't think it's accurate to frame support for these measures as inherently "dangerously stupid". Many supporters are responding to concerns about addictive platform design, bullying, self-harm content, algorithmic recommendation systems, and the amount of time children spend on these services. You can disagree with their proposed solution without assuming bad motives or indifference to civil liberties.

    Where I think the debate should focus is on effectiveness and proportionality. If age-verification systems are ineffective, easily bypassed, or require unacceptable levels of data collection, then that's a strong argument against them.

    But that's different from arguing that any attempt to restrict children's access is necessarily an attack on privacy or freedom.

    And if we agree that major platforms have not done a particularly good job of protecting children, then "people will just use something else" doesn't fully answer the policy question. It simply shifts the discussion to what, if anything, should be done instead.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    The damage is done in the UK. The regulation needs to be written with privacy first, or it will undoubtedly be taken advantage of by bad actors. To think anything else is possible under capitalism is dangerously stupid.

    Australia’s social media ban – is it working?

    Obviously regulation has been and is always better than prohibition. Prohibition is a lazy “quick win” political move and always has been.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    This is an overt invasion of everyone's privacy to protect children. It will do nothing to stop children from accessing this content. On the contrary, it will likely push them to even more unsavory areas of the internet to get around it.

    20 years ago, the goal was to "protect us from terrorists," and now the argument is "protect children from the world we created." A year or two from now, they'll realize that they didn't go far enough with this, because children will use TOR and/or VPNs to get around it. Then they will come for those technologies. It is a transparent power grab by rightwing fanatics. It always has been and always will be.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, exactly. Let's also ban nature documentaries along with slides, bikes, Gregg's sausage rolls and clowns. Anything that requires an iota of parenting should be verboten from the younglings.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Yeah, except this isn't really about the children. This causes a lot of adults to face restrictions and submit their IDs to surveillance companies like Persona/Palantir. Also, I'm fairly certain you are aware why tying your identity to your browsing activity is a bad idea.

    Also, there are noninvasive ways to implement this, like:

    • Google's Parental Controls (if you use Android/Google)
    • If you use Apple, then there are similar settings there too
    • If you are on a degoogled device, then use DNS filters, and lock apps to prevent changes

    I do not think everyone (including adults without children) needs to suffer because some parents find it hard to do parent.

    Also, I think this should be more about cracking down on addictive algorithms by social media companies (and holding them accountable) than enforcing a blanket ID collection. None of these laws do anything about that. Even adults are addicted to these platforms, and at best, all this law does is push the addiction until after 16 (in a realistic scenario, children can, and will circumvent this).

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    A 10 year old has no business being on tiktok

    Government overreach.
    Parents should shouldn't issue an internet capable phone to a 10 y/o. And if, restrict it to hell and heavens.

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  • 24 comments in c/unitedkingdom@feddit.uk view that post
    [–] 10 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I feel safer already, and I'm 59. Thanks Keir!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Right this is all about old people feeling safe, it has NOTHING to do with reality and it is shocking people like you are aggressively willing to endorse the destruction of things that were vital lifelines for people just because it gives you good feelings.

    edit I took the sarcasm bait hook line and sinker lol

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    My bad, that was actually a great sarcastic comment, it is just so many older people have said almost that exact same thing to me in total seriousness about equally stupid shit that doesn't effect them/actively hurts them and only hurts others but their heart of hearts wanted... that I was unable to realize this was the unicorn moment.

    To be honest, that kind of thinking typifies that generation so.... you gotta include a /s lol.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Starmer really couldn’t be any more of a useless fucking prick.

    Btw they already have this here in Australia and the kids have graduated to meeting for machete battles in shopping centres now that talking things out is banned.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Ehhh... The sharp implement battles have kinda always been there. Knifepoint didn't earn it's nickname for nothing.

    And the kids have graduated to using VPN; which I believe has always been the endgame for the govt. How many times have they tried to ban encryption?

    "The laws of mathematics is well and good, but we respect the laws of Australia here" - Some knob that somehow managed to become PM

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    In a move to protect children online and address the scale of the challenge, the government will also go further than a blanket ban on social media with world-leading blocks on harmful functions such as livestreaming and stranger communication with children for under-16s. These restrictions – which together with the ban go further than any other country – will apply to a wider range of online services, including on gaming sites.

    Restrictions on these functionalities will also be on by default for under 16- and 17-year-olds to prevent a cliff-edge at 16. The government will also be looking in more detail at overnight curfews and breaks in infinite scrolling for under-18-year-olds and will set out more detail in July. 

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/youth-voters-labour-election_uk_69e86af8e4b0fa6ffe8ffa5a

    Labour risks losing “a generation of young voters” to the Greens and Reform, according to one of its own MPs.

    Luke Charters told HuffPost UK that Labour has always been the “party young people backed when it mattered”.

    But he warned: “If we don’t show we’re serious about delivering, we risk losing a generation to populists peddling false hope.”

    Labour legalised voting for 16 and 17-year-olds, too.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/representation-of-the-people-bill-policy-summaries/votes-at-16

    Representation of the People Bill 2026: Extending the right to vote to 16 and 17 year olds

    I'm not sure that these are necessarily the most-advantageous policies for Labour to adopt in conjunction with each other, but I suppose that we will see how it works out.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    YouTube is... social? I thought it was just a pile of videos.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Almost anything has comments. Even the shops with potatoes and socks.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    Which is why these kinds of bans will always be extremely inconsistent, ineffective and ultimately only harmful to the people who cannot get around the bullshit blocks that the vast majority of kids simply circumvent.

    So the kids with tech savy parents get to learn how to access the internet and get all those benefits, but kids who grow up without techy parents are thrown to the dogs, sounds fair!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    Occasionally I think it’s weird how it used to just be this place to upload random videos for people to see, and now it’s all pricks with pencil mustaches narrating into a light ring and building a “brand”, and adverts and paid promotions. I think the last thing I bothered to upload was some idiots in armour battering the shit out of each other in a field.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Extremely happy with this one. I understand everyone's worries about surveillance and all that, and I agree with a lot of it, but I think in this case it's worth it. Social media is just that bad.

    From my own point of view, I hate hate hate Instagram/Facebook/Tiktok. When my kids get to that age I'd be facing a binary choice of either letting them use it or turning them into the "one weird kid in the class who isn't allowed insta". Even if this law is only 25% effective, that's good enough for me. My kids will be in that 25% not using it, and I don't have to worry about them being social pariahs.

    From a wider point of view, social media is severely fucking up the entire world. I think it's too much for most adults, let alone kids. No way should kids be on there.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    If we agree social media can be harmful, then why is it an age question and not changing it at its source for everyone like removing infinite scroll. All this does is normalise ID checks for social media so that when the kids are old enough to be on it, they don't see an issue with assigning their ID to their online activity. At the same time we have people getting arrested for protesting which is meant to be a human right.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Where is your hard evidence? You don't know what you are talking about and you are going off the vibes of a moral panic to make the choice to attempt to massively censor public discourse... while you are on the fediverse of all places!?

    We note three main findings from our review. First, these studies do not include children or adolescents. Across the studies, not one study reported a mean age of participants below 18. Only eight included any participants under 18, and all of these studies recruited from university human subjects pools or university mailing lists, meaning participants likely were college students. The youngest participant reported in any study was 16 years old. This means that we do not have findings from the populations that these bans are targeting.

    Second, these studies' brief length of intervention and frequent use of social media reduction instead of restriction may limit the relevance of their findings to long-term, complete bans at the population level. Social media restriction periods ranged from 1 day to 3 months, with half of the studies imposing the restriction for 1 week or less. The mean length of restriction across all studies was 16.3 days. Furthermore, just 21 out of 40 studies implemented full social media restriction in the experimental condition. That means that the other 19 out of 40 studies tested a partial social media reduction, not a full restriction protocol. Participants in partial reduction studies were allowed to use social media every day up to a predetermined limit. The brief length and frequent use of partial reduction further limit the external validity of the findings with respect to informing anticipated impacts of long-term, complete bans.

    Third, even if we were to extend these findings downward to adolescents, there is little evidence to date that impacts would be practically meaningful or even positive in direction. In the meta-analyses of these data to date, average effects have been indistinguishable from zero (Ferguson, 2024) or small in size (ḡ = 0.17), leading authors to conclude, “Restriction is likely not the most effective method of improving subjective wellbeing in today's digital age” (Burnell et al., 2025, p. 11). Neither meta-analysis found any evidence that length of restriction or extent of restriction (full vs. partial) moderated the effect sizes (Burnell et al., 2025; Ferguson, 2024). However, both meta-analyses found evidence that older age was associated with greater benefits of social media restriction (Burnell et al., 2025; Ferguson, 2024).

    Across the 40 studies identified in our review, while most studies documented a positive impact, eight studies found null results, and eight studies found decreases in wellbeing resulting from social media restriction (see Table 1). The vast majority of the effect sizes were small (for a comprehensive analysis, see Burnell et al., 2025). Notably, participants were not masked to their experimental condition and trials were conducted in a context where people are told that social media is bad for one's wellbeing and that taking a break will lead to improvements. Therefore, it is surprising that the average impacts of the experiments were not more positive due to the fact the study designs were biased toward finding positive impacts.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/developmental-psychology/articles/10.3389/fdpys.2026.1805989/full

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/06/how-and-why-fight-back-against-social-media-bans

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/06/internet-age-gates-are-growing-global-threat

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    I see no mention of Rumble or Telegram. Are they left out on purpose, or because they have no idea what they are doing?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    They say that they intentionally aren't targeting messaging services, so Telegram might be exempt.

    This would capture user-to-user platforms, whose purpose is to enable social interaction and which allow users to post material, alongside algorithms. The ban will therefore include platforms like Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and X. We do not intend for messaging services like WhatsApp and Signal to be included in the social media ban.

    That being said, I'm a little fuzzy on how this is targeting communicating with strangers, since I'd imagine that more people do that via messaging platforms than, say, YouTube:

    In a move to protect children online and address the scale of the challenge, the government will also go further than a blanket ban on social media with world-leading blocks on harmful functions such as livestreaming and stranger communication with children for under-16s. These restrictions – which together with the ban go further than any other country – will apply to a wider range of online services, including on gaming sites.

    That's a good point on Rumble, though.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_(company)

    Rumble, Inc. is a Canadian-American online video platform, web hosting, and cloud services business[8][9] headquartered in Toronto, Canada, with its U.S. headquarters in Longboat Key, Florida. It was founded in 2013 by Chris Pavlovski, a Canadian technology entrepreneur. Rumble's cloud services business hosts Truth Social, and the video platform is popular among American conservative and far-right users. Rumble has been described as "alt-tech".

    Rumble received investment from venture capitalists Peter Thiel, Vivek Ramaswamy and JD Vance in May 2021, with that round of funding valuing Rumble at around $500 million.[21] In October 2021, Rumble acquired Locals.[22] On December 14, 2021, Trump Media & Technology Group (TMTG) announced that it entered a "wide-ranging technology and cloud services agreement" with Rumble in a statement that also stated that Rumble would operate part of Truth Social as well as TMTG.[23]

    According to a June 2021 article from Slate, "Pavlovski has recently become more outspoken in accusing Big Tech of censorship and now actively courts prominent conservatives and intellectual dark web figures to join Rumble."[50] It also hosted Truth Social as of June 2022.[62] In August 2021, Rumble reached agreements with former Democratic Representative Tulsi Gabbard and The Intercept founder Glenn Greenwald to start posting their videos to the site.[63]

    As of August 15, 2022, Rumble reported 78 million monthly active users (MAU).[64] That month, after being banned from most other platforms for hate speech and harmful conduct, kickboxer and social media personality Andrew Tate began posting on Rumble. Tate's move coincided with a significant increase in downloads of the Rumble app.[65][66] Other prominent figures to join in 2021 include far-right podcaster Nick Fuentes, who has become one of their biggest streamers.[67]

    And in that vein, gab.com:

    https://gab.com/

    You won't find Gab on the Apple App Store or Google Play. We've been banned since 2017 for refusing to censor speech that Big Tech demanded we remove. But you can still get our app on your phone—and it works just as well as any native app.

    Freedom of Speech & Reach

    All First Amendment protected speech is welcome. No algorithmic throttling or shadow banning like other platforms.

    Battle Tested

    A decade of standing strong against censorship. Banned from app stores, banks, and payment processors—and still here.

    Being banned from app stores for nearly a decade shows how serious we are about defending free speech. We also reject all foreign censorship demands and data requests for so-called "hate speech" from foreign nations. On Gab your speech stays protected and we have the scars to prove it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)

    Gab is an American alt-tech microblogging and social networking service. Widely described as a haven for far-right and alt-right users, Gab has attracted users and groups who have been banned from other social media platforms and users seeking alternatives to mainstream social media platforms. Founded in 2016 and launched publicly in May 2017, Gab claims to promote free speech, individual liberty, the "free flow of information online", and Christian values. Researchers and journalists have characterized these assertions as an obfuscation of its extremist ecosystem.

    And 4chan, while I'm on that:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c624330lg1ko

    The UK online safety regulator Ofcom has fined the US messaging platform 4Chan a total of £520,000 for failing to comply with various aspects of the Online Safety Act.

    It includes £450,000 for failing to put in age checks to prevent children from seeing pornography on the platform.

    However, a lawyer representing the company - which has previously said it won't pay such fines - has responded to the demand with an AI-generated cartoon image of a hamster.

    In a follow-up post on X, 4Chan's lawyer Preston Byrne wrote: "In the only country in which 4chan operates, the United States, it is breaking no law and indeed its conduct is expressly protected by the First Amendment."

    The latest image is not the first picture of a hamster lawyers for 4chan have sent in reply to Ofcom

    Like, if part of the net effect winds up being a transfer of Britain's children and teenagers from websites that care about and follow British regulations to websites


    some of which are hard right


    that do not care about British regulation, it will be interesting.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I'm thinking they might be using the definition from Digital Services Tax policies, which state that:

    The social media definition focuses on two key aspects of user participation. An online service will meet the definition when both of the following conditions are met:

    • The main purpose, or one of the main purposes, of the service is to promote interaction between users (including interaction between users and user-generated content).
    • Making content generated by users available to other users is a significant feature of the service.

    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/digital-services-tax/dst14200

    If that's the case, then Rumble et al would be banned too. It might just be, that the press release just mentions the most popular ones.

    That they don't intend to target messaging platforms like WhatsApp and Signal (and potentially Telegram) is a bit of a greyzone. Telegram is more social network than messaging app these days, where channels are a huge part of the platform. In fact, it's such an important part, that WhatsApp copied the Channel feature to their platform.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Rumble would be banned too

    Yeah, but my point is really that some services, probably including Rumble, won't care about regulatory action. So the next action, if this continues, would presumably be the British government doing what Russia did, which is mandating that British ISPs set up to block access to government-specified hosts, because legal routes currently being attempted on them won't work.

    Then the VPNs and similar come out, and presumably if it keeps going, again, the UK does what Russia did, which is disallow commercial VPNs from operating in the UK without blocking traffic to said hosts internal to the VPN.

    Then the next step is things like VPNs that rely on data harvesting instead of commercial sales, so can't be pressured by payment processors, and operate in jurisdictions that don't care about legal action, Tor, DIY proxies (e.g. get cheap VPS in random place, run SOCKS proxy/VPN), and so on. At some point, the British government stops following up, and someone starts making one-click solutions juuust beyond what enforcement goes after.

    Telegram is more social network tham messaging app these days

    Ah, gotcha, thanks


    I don't use it.

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