Teslas be like

(elon doesn't believe in lidar)
Teslas be like

(elon doesn't believe in lidar)
"autopilot" shouldn't even be used on a narrow residential street like that.
Putting the company aside for a second, genuinely why? Low speed residential, especially narrow or precision driving should be bread and butter tier 2 autonomous driving, right under tier 1 = highway, and quite a lot over the complexities of mixed use areas at higher speed. Unless you specifically meant their Tesla autopilot and not the concept as a whole with it in quotes.
Autonomous vehicles have been known to run over and through quite a few things. In an area where a bunch of kids are likely to be playing is a bad place for such a technology IMO.
Are people stupid enough to actually trust Tesla's autopilot, or do they do it on purpose to then sue Tesla?
Nevermind, I know the answer...
This is basically automation bias you’re describing and it’s what scares the hell out of me with these “FSD” teslas on the road.
Even if you were able to keep constantly alert during the 99% of the time where this works (which I think is close to humanly impossible) why would you want a system that doesn’t offload you at all? The only value of this system is if people ignore the limitations and allow themselves to zone out - the rest of us are at risk when it goes wrong!
I use lane assist and traffic aware cruise to keep my shoulders and (bad) knee physically relaxed on long highway stretches. That said, I would probably choose to tolerate the inevitable day of neck and/or knee pain if it meant no one was using this stuff. Automation bias is scary.
[...] why would you want a system that doesn’t offload you at all? The only value of this system is if people ignore the limitations and allow themselves to zone out [...]
I think there are some "absolutes" used here that make these things incorrect.
That said, my car is a bit old and just has the classic kind of cruise control. I've only used the newer stuff on a few road trips in rental cars, so maybe I just haven't had enough experience with it to reach the levels of carelessness required to drive into a garage door yet.
Cruise control lets me relax my legs. It’s purely mechanical.
Other automations like lane assist and emergency break system saves my ass if I’m not paying attention. FSD (if used as intended) does exactly the opposite: I have to save it’s ass if/when it overlooks something. I have to be constantly alert without almost ever having a reason to. The human mind is not made for that. I would 100% find it harder to pay attention in that scenario than if I’m also doing the driving and not because Elon is an asshole.
If I could check my email or read a book and have the car say “take over in 10 seconds time” I would get it, but if I’m constantly aware, hands on the ready and eyes on the road I would literally much much mucho much rather not have it at all.
But of course that’s not how it’s being used. Tesla drivers are willing to run the risk on behalf of themselves and anyone they are sharing the road with.
I really like the automatic cruise control on my fairly new Honda Jazz. I've found that it has a net positive effect on my attention to the road, because I become less fatigued from the small, brief slowdowns that I might encounter on a motorway. There was actually an instance where I narrowly avoided a crash while using this system because of how quickly I acted when a potentially dangerous situation developed into an active crash; I felt like I was more alert than I would've otherwise been after a day of driving
However, I do not like the lane-keeping system, especially combined with the automatic cruise control. I remember testing it when I was on a clear but fairly curved section of the motorway, with my hands completely off the wheel (but hovering over the wheel, ready to take control again if necessary). I was horrified by how effectively it took me round the bend — effectively enough to be dangerous. There is a warning beep if you spend too long without your hands on the wheel at all for a while, but this was just something I did while testing it. I've not used it since, because I was confident that, unlike the automatic cruise control used on its own, this would diminish my attention and leave me unable to properly respond to an exceptional circumstances.
I own modern Kia with these systems you described. I use this almost constantly BUT: the first month after getting the car I was terrified, literally scared and 15 minutes drive exhausted me just like 2 hours in my previous car. I was learning to trust the system, had to known all the limitations first. I now know when to take over and really like adaptive cruise control especially in traffic.
I am a software engineer though, there is nothing "smart" in my home (apart from TV obviously) and I can see how people can fall into the trap you described.
1 second before crash autopilot disconnects, so you are fully responsible...
Not to mention you need to focus on autopilot driving according to tesla, which makes autopilot pointless.
I thought they stopped calling it autopilot due to legal stuff and such, or has that not gone through yet?
It's "full self driving (supervised)" last I checked.
Autopilot isnt FSD Supervised.
Autopilot just keeps you in lane and distanced from a lead car, mainly meant for highways/ freeways. A combination of auto steer (for lane) and traffic aware cruise control.
FSD Supervised is meant for anywhere and will take turns, change lanes, stop for lights etc.
They no longer sell or include AP, and its been renamed to something involving autosteer for existing owners. New purchases can only subscribe to FSD Supervised now.
They might be one of the only major OEMs that dont include any kind of lane keeping in their cars now, which is pretty much standard now.
They no longer sell or include AP
That's true only in the USA and Canada. You can still get autopilot in most of the world, especially in countries where FSD isn't approved.
That's bad that the car's software confused a closed garage door for a kid.
This is crazy, I was in a parking lot yesterday and saw someone have their Tesla driver right up to them to pick them up in the parking lot with no driver inside. Kind of pissed me off I was so near in the same parking lot that was operating on its own, with my wife and nieces. I know Elon Musk wouldn't give one fuck about me if his dumbass machine ran me or mine right over
Feel free to fuck with that car, there really isn't a penalty for say moonwalking in front of one, if it does hit you, great you're a millionaire. Or if you don't feel like doing it just point it out to my dumbass.
After almost getting hit twice by a driven Tesla while walking in a lot, the guy parked it in a handicap spot with no placard and speed walked into the store. Upon exit from a different door, the driver had it drive itself to him. I'm miffed i missed my chance to fuck with it because I didn't know what was going on. I was waiting, debating calling police for the placard issue (given there were multiple open spaces nearby). I decided to not get involved and drove in front of the tesla to exit. Weird, I noted, seeing the drl bar and left blinker on. Turns out, it was waiting it's turn to leave autonomously.
Fuck that guy. DoorDash vibe. 150ft walk.
They have had that capability for at least 7 years now so if it makes you feel any better, it’s been getting tested for a while. Interesting side note, if the car does fuck up and damage another car or injure someone, the TOS says that the owner of the vehicle is liable and Tesla has no culpability.
Later he was fined by the HOA because the garage door being open since 20 minutes
The sentence structure that people from different non-english-speaking countries use is really interesting.
After working with so many people from India, I would guess this person was originally from there. "Since 20 minutes" is a fairly common way that they say it.
The reporting states the driving mode in question was Tesla's "autopilot system," instead of the proper Autopilot, which is Tesla's less advanced driving system. Full Self-Driving (Supervised) is Tesla's more capable feature, although its name is a misnomer, since it's not capable of fully driving itself and requires constant supervision.
I feel like this section needs a rewrite. What is the distinction they're drawing between "Tesla's 'autopilot system'" and "Autopilot"?
It's hard to describe these modes because Tesla purposefully blurs and obfuscates what they actually can/cannot do (like giving them names that are basically synonyms.) Typical confuseopoly strategy.
Are you saying that there are three modes, one called "autopilot system," one called "Autopilot," and one called "Full Self-Driving"? Because otherwise this phrasing:
the driving mode in question was Tesla’s “autopilot system,” instead of the proper Autopilot
is confusing in a way that's independent of the way that Tesla's names are confusing.
My understanding was that there are two modes, one misleadingly called "autopilot" which is basically adaptive cruise control plus lane keeping, and one even more misleadingly called "full self driving," which integrates with the GPS and will also do lane changes and exits. Both will happily plow you into a semi at speed, which makes the names REALLY dumb. But the distinction the article is making, between the "autopilot system" and capital-A "Autopilot," seems like it needs more explanation, and I don't think that's a Tesla distinction.
"Autopilot" is the category that depending on which car you bought and which DLC skins you paid for might contain "Autopilot" cruise control or "Full Self Driving" or "Autosteer" or "Cruise Control" or other shit that do different things and change names whenever the car updates.
Autopilot*
*not actually autopilot
so fukn misleading. elon should be sued for billions
these fukn technocrats are all shitbags, and deserve to be taxed to hell
You couldn't pay me to drive a Tesla, and that's doubly true for Tesla on "autopilot".
Bet they are lying and just pressed the wrong pedal by themselves. Bet they were on their phone, the cruise control beeped and then they panicked and floored it. Insurance companies probably have to deal with a ton of Tesla owners who are blaming the Autopilot for a mistake the driver made, even when the cruise control wasn't used.
Seems like a pretty risky lie as the car should have logs saying exactly what happened (at least to the level of detail of cruise control + accelerator vs self-driving).
Until Tesla scrubs that from their log again like they were already caught doing once
Curious: what was the outcome of them being caught doing that?
The jury didn't like it, but it didn't really prove anything that wasn't already known. I'm not really sure why they did what they did in the end? It wasn't disputed that AP was on, and that the guy overrode the saftey systems. The jury found them partially at fault because they allowed the system to operate there and because they claim it didn't work as advertised, and it was a huge jury verdict damages they have to pay.
I have a feeling it's going to get a reduced damages though as it goes through appeals. The dude was looking down for a phone he fumbled with his foot on the accelerator which overrides the safety systems, to the point the car warns you on screen that it will not brake while your foot is on the accelerator. And guess what... the car did not brake! Surprise!
Oh, that might have been plain old incompetence rather than deliberate evidence tampering if both sides agreed to the bits that incriminate their own side. Unless there was something more going on that the logs would have shown, like "damage detected while self-driving enabled, dispatching Tesla cleanup crew to take care of the witnesses".
Non-Tesla cars have black boxes already and have for years so you yeah you're right
I feel like your insurance should automatically be higher for being stupid enough to purchase one.
Check the mobile phone records from the idiot driver. He was staring at his iPhone or Galaxy and failed to pay attention to the neo-Nazi shitbox making a directional change. If that's the case, revoke his damn license.
I'm not a fan of Elon or Tesla, just for the record. So I hate to actually be the one defending them. But I'm guessing on the same exact day about 12 people drove through their garage doors, NOT in Teslas.
Yeah, but there are more than 100x other cars on the road. And this one is automated. And this was a stupid mistake if true.
I mean, they're probably lying about it being on autopilot, they just pushed the wrong pedal or something. That said, I drive an electric van at work and it wouldn't let me bump into something if I tried.
I swear most Teslas I hear driving always have a “rattle” when they go over bumps. Sounds like bad build quality, I rarely hear other cars with the issue. For sure seem like poorly made cars.
I may have had bad luck, but I feel like this is very common across any American car brand. Recently rode in a new Rivian, and the door closing had a rattle like something was a little loose.
It could be the control arms. Older Model 3's have famously shitty control arms that collapse all the time, but a lot of people don't seem to notice until it gets really bad (myself included, unfortunately).
I have an older Teala with AP, and I dont understand how this is possible...
You can't engage it on your driveway. It'll say its unavailable. You gotta be moving a bit first on a roadway.
If he was on the roadway and turning into his driveway, AP cant make turns, so thats not possible.
He could have had traffic aware cruise control on, and auto steer off so he could steer it, but then he's the one who drove it into the garage.
Edit: maybe a cul du sac where he's at the end and itd drive straight up, but he wouldn't have been able to turn onto it, which means he would have had to turn it on just for the small street?
Edit: and if they story is it went off the road into the garage on its own with a sudden turn... check that angle out. Its not like it came in on a shallow angle veering off the road, its almost 90 degrees to the garage from a short driveway...
The article suggests it wasn't the driver's garage. The driver's story seems to be "It was driving itself happily and then went mad and crashed into this random person's garage!".
It's down to the crash investigators to find out whether that's the truth, or the driver crashed it themselves and then just blamed the AP.
Ya i better understood that just a few moments ago. The angle it went into the house seems pretty suspicious still. Thats a pretty sharp turn vs if it tried to dodge an imaginary deer for example.
FSD is not capable of dodging a deer - it just brakes.
If the deer darts in front at the last second it will try to swerve around it, but maybe not too aggressively. Similar to if a car intrudes in your lane. But ya, if its standing in the road in front of you it will just brake.
Edit: Looks like someone did a video of it a couple days ago of swerving to avoid an inflatable dummy someone throws at it, so this is what I'd expect for a deer that jumps in front of it. Some pretty good speed reactions in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KRr9Of46MM
https://old.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1u69k79/fsd_reaction_time_testing_45_mph/
As the article states, they may have meant FSD. Which people very frequently call Autopilot.
I saw my first Tesla this week with the "I bought this before Elon went nuts" bumper sticker. I don't give a fuck when you bought that garbage, its a fucking dangerous piece of shit and shouldn't be on the roads with real cars. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for EVs taking over the market, just as long as they aren't teslas.
You don't have to use the self driving features of a Tesla. As long as we're not talking about Cybertrucks, they're still a regular car with mechanically connected steering and brakes.
The back seats not having manual releases and other baffling design decisions might be dangerous for the people inside, but I don't really have a problem being on the road next to them.
Looks like this homeowner got lucky the car didn't hit a wall. Replacing just a garage door is way easier than repairing structural damage to the walls... Hopefully the driver's insurance pays for all of it.
If the person driver is trying to escape culpability, too bad. They made the decision to use Tesla autopilot which is well known to go crazy and crash into things, so the fault remains with them.
That's a bad take.
Tesla built the system, and advertised it to provide a specific service. That service is faulty. Tesla is at fault.
You can't expect every consumer to just understand that the company selling the product is outright lying. That's putting the responsibility in the wrong hands, and absolving corporations of lying to the public.
It was autopilot, not FSD. It’s adaptive cruise control. Originally also lane keeping but Tesla was forced to remove that
The article says the car swerved into the garage, which means the car took control of the steering wheel and turned it off the road into the house.
Tesla says the cars should be able to drive straight on the road without driver input. This car took control and drove it into a wall.
That is Tesla's fault, not the driver. Heck, based on the information here, even if the driver was 100% paying attention, they might not have had the reaction time to stop the car.
Was literally in a self drive Tesla a couple of days ago. 2023 model. Self drove 170 miles door to door except final parking. So I'm not sure what you mean when you say they removed it.
The other gimmicky Tesla stuff aside, the self drive was freaking awesome.
For autopilot they recently removed lane keeping in response to a lawsuit. Although I don’t know if that’s location-specific
That’s different from full self-driving
https://insideevs.com/news/785225/tesla-removes-autopilot-base-models/
They no longer sell AP in areas that offer FSD Supervised, yes in part likely because of the lawsuit, but if you have AP lane keeping was not removed, and you can still get it anywhere FSD Supervised isn't approved and sold today.
I think it's also so Elon can pump his FSD subscription numbers to get his performance goal of so many subscriptions.
The current FSD subscription price is much better than the purchase price used to be and they are much closer to being able to deliver.
I’m getting tempted. I’ll probably let a million cyberCab users do a more complete validation but it’s definitely getting close
There's no way they'll keep it at that price once it works, and since it can't be bought now, everyone who didn't purchased it is gonna be SOL. It's going to be the only option moving forward for any kind of lane keeping.
Edit: And by works I mean when they can run a large Cybercab fleet across the country autonomously like Waymo.
top 83 comments