top 75 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 116 points 4 months ago (7 children)

We have failed not just as a society but as a species by allowing him and all like him to survive this long.

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 65 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Capitalism is amongst the worst things humanity has ever designed. We’ve not just allowed, but encouraged the rise of the likes of Musk and Thiel, celebrating their success even! Too many people believe the lie; it cannot be modified or replaced. They believe this lie, while idolizing Musk thinking that could be me one day.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    The celebration part and the "white knights" defending these cunts using oversimplified logic is what made me lose faith in humanity.

    We are really asking so hard to go extinct is not even funny anymore.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    havnt heard that in a while, they switched to "why you making fun of conservatives or nazis, inclusivity". i usually call them white defenders(defending anything that a white person would do that is terrible, or think it is good"

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 80 points 4 months ago

    UNFORTUNATELY we CANT Tax this TRILLION DOLLARS because it's not REAL money but Also Elon Musk can BUY Countries because it's Real Money!

    -Republicans!

  • source
  • [–] 64 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Time for some kinetic wealth redistribution.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    If we do it now everyone gets $125 and if we exclude everyone who has over $1M we get way more than $125

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 38 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I don’t care if it’s $3.50, just as long as Elon Musk is made the example he deserves to be. A single room apartment, with a crappy landlord who never fixes anything, and a job that never allows his head to be above water. He can become the exploited worker he’s always dreamed of.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 45 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 36 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    i hope his dick falls off in the toilet tonight.

    just falls right off. no trauma, no event, but just plop there it goes.

    fuck elon. fuck xai.

    build the fuckin water treatment plant you promised in memphis.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Isn’t all excessive wealth built on suffering?

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] [S] -4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    It doesn't have to be, but those are the incentives we have set up

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    really curious how you think someone could obtain a trillion dollars without exploiting others

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    I can only think of one: massive inflation à la 2008 Zimbabwe. They printed a 100 trillion dollar bill by the end of that one, so nearly everyone was a trillionaire.

    Now they're in an entirely new hyperinflation crisis, but it's nowhere near the 89.7 sextillion percent year-on-year inflation rate they saw at the first's peak.

    Edit: fucking hell, they're releasing yet another currency: the Zimbabwean ZiG. IYKYK

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    You're absolutely right. It would have to be intentional, planned inflation, where the populace decided to scale down the value of all existing currency while providing everyone enough additional currency to exactly maintain their original financial worth.

    So only viable in micronations where the populace of five got really high one night and had a profound idea they thought would be totally fucking hilarious.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    I think I know what you might be suggesting.

    Instead of an extravagant lifestyle only for a small few as a result of their intercepting and concentrating the majority of the labor output, all people could live a similarly extravagant lifestyle if the system were to change entirely.

    It would require a massive shift, including off-world resource acquisition and hugely increased energy generation as the amount of both required for every person alive to live in luxury vastly exceeds that which is available on earth, but it's not impossible to complete without causing others to suffer. That's just the easy route for the planet's wealthy sociopaths.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago

    In 2020, Elon Musk was worth around $25 billion dollars.

    Eat the rich.

  • source
  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago

    Also billions in welfare from the US government.

  • source
  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago

    I was hoping he'd fail to get that valuation but you know what, it's fitting. Capitalism is bullshit, neoliberalism is a scam, a king of obvious, ridiculous frauds having the hugh score in the game is perfectly fitting.

  • source
  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    There is a trillionaire now, and people are letting this happen. We should all be in the streets up in arms together and not leave until Elmo musk is brought down to destination

    No more billionaires, no more super millionaires, I want wealth caps! Nobody should be worth more than 10 million dollars, any income over that must go straight to taxes, world wide

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Amen to that. I think about 10 million is the proper amount of max wealth. I always say its the ideal size lottery winnings. Enough to retire on the spot, and live out the next 40-50 years well, but not enough to become a psychopath.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago

    Don't forget a Nazi also.

  • source
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    I doubt the second and third trillionaires won't also be killers

  • source
  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    Its insane the thing he did with the stock offering where he gets stock every time they produce stock. He has made so many bad decisions he should be a story about a rich guy who lost it all but because we have eliminated tax on the rich its now almost impossible to lose money.

  • source
  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Every empire of wealth is built on the suffering of others. The only one I can think of that isn't is Dolly Parton's.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago*

    If I had a dollar for every dollar Elon Musk made earnestly, I'd have like twenty bucks. He's a figurehead that is being used to hold that much money and act all childish because the alt-right pipeline starts in middle school and unsocialized boys look up to him and thus branch into STEM. The FBI does a similar thing with influencers they use as the centerpiece to cults of personality to create means in which to keep an eye on and investigate certain archetypes in the culture, as well as provide propaganda to.

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    Is that the guy who at Christmas day begged Epstein to let him in his island?

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    we are already counting over an estimated million deaths (mostly children) as a direct result for him making those super duper funding cuts for basically any basic needs for the poorest and most in need, all to mildly chip away at the cost of the super duper tax cuts the world's richest were getting at the same time.

    not just a "killer," he's the world's richest person and he directly decided that mountains of children should die.

    how do you define a cartoon villain?

    he is so evil that he looks like a parody of evil.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Correction: All capitalist wealth is built on suffering

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [+] -19 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    But of course there has never been any suffering in any socialist system!

    Perhaps we should read a history book and find out when the peak of human prosperity was achieved and figure out how that happened.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The difference is that:

    Socialism is built on the concept of the planned reduction of suffering for the majority of people. It can and has been used by tyrants to make themselves wealthy at the expense of the country and its people.

    Capitalism is built on the concept of the planned increase in suffering for the majority of people for the exclusivity of the few. The negative aspects described in socialism above is the core goal under capitalism.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The two biggest famines in human history weren't caused by droughts or natural disasters. They were caused by socialism.

    Socialism was a failure. The economic policies of 1930s capitalism was also a failure.

    Fortunately those aren't the only two options. We don't have to follow the failed systems of the past. There were successful economic policies used after WWII up until Ronald Reagan which were very successful.

    Trust-busting, taxing the wealthy, and Keynesian economic policies were what led to the peak of human prosperity.

    Socialism from the perspective of the working class was starvation followed by building lots of shitty tanks, followed by economic collapse. You should read history from that perspective a little more instead just reading the writings by the elites in those societies.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Are you talking about communism or socialism? You shouldn't conflate the two. Both are different from each other and you.

    The peak of human prosperity

    You're looking at this purely economically - prosperity isn't only financial and this is where you're failing to understand what wealth actually means. It's more than what's in your bank account.

    But you're correct that actually taxing the wealthy correctly would alleviate some of the problems using that to fund social programs would be a good start. That is what many European countries do - many are classed as Social Democracies for that reason.

    Unfortunately I have read a lot of history so am not blissfully ignorant. But please don't gatekeep thoughts or pontificate on "how smart you are". It's rather crass. Talking down to people only makes you seem gauche. There's enough of that in the world.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Not sure how stalinists can plausibly claim to be socialists.

    You can't have worker control without democracy, and the USSR certainly did not have democracy.

    It had a new ruling class, based on party position rather than money.

    That's not socialism - socialism requires democracy by definition.

    Stalinists and Maoists who claim otherwise are idiots.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    benefited from his equally abhorrent dad, who owned at least part of an emerald mine that gave him his starting fortune.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Asshole of the world.

  • source
  • America is built on suffering. We are all pieces of shit and murders. ...and we keep playing the same games and finding it.

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    All empires are built on suffering.

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago
    [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

    His companies have been valued at $X billion/million each. That doesn't mean he (or any of the "richest people") actually has that much wealth. It means that he has gamed the system of company valuation. He needs that for his fragile ego.

    Of course they're all still wayyyyy too rich, but -

    Fuck that "trillionaire" shit. Every time this is mentioned, Musk's ego is stroked. And I feel dirty just writing that last sentence. Eww.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    His net worth is inflated even by American standards where net worth is already insanely inflated.

    A lot of times, company evaluation is calculated by being roughly 10x it's yearly revenue. Alphabet, meta, all fit this. Space X is literally valued close to 100x

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    company evaluation is calculated

    I listened to a podcast about this and according to that it's more insidious; valuation companies are owned by the people who own the business to be valued, and similar types of corruption.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    I mean, isn't a company's valuation decided by the company themselves? Rest, when market forces are controlled by private hedge funds, asset management companies, and retirement funds, I feel normal Market rationality cannot be assumed. Market ownership right now is highly concentrated in these entities, and they have all the incentives to keep these valuation up for the reasons you stated.

    It's interesting that the more you learn about the market the more it looks like a ponzi scheme😂

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    No and yes. Actual wealth is stupid complicated and difficult to see, but when you have stocks priced that high, you can trade shares or take bank loans against them. So in some sense, it's partially real money.

    That Schrodinger's wealth is super useful for gaming the tax system, and since it's not in cash or gold or whatever, you can't really guillotine the owners and distribute it because without the backing of banking and stock market, those stocks are indeed worthless.

    As you can see, the neoliberal "free market x combines worst parts of every system and serves only evil, corrupt ones. There can never anything good come out of such an economic system.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You can take loans against the "worth" of your company, which has been overvalued in a corrupt way. It can grow into a pyramid scheme; Musk certainly did this.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    Not only can you take loans against your shares, but you can pay the interest on those loans with dividends from the shares, and because they're a loans, the cash-in-hand is not taxable, so you pay NO TAX on it. You have no "income" on paper, but you can pay people and companies with shares instead of money, shares that you can literally conjure into existence by typing numbers into a spreadsheet. Those money and shares are really useful for greasing the palms of politicians, government officials, and hangers-on so that you can get your way. You can even use this money and influence to cause riots and stoke division in society.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    This is the way ( of the usa ).

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    And the second is far worse.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago
    [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Very frustrating that criticism shifts to adding an extra comma to his wealth. Zero change will happen over maximum allowed commas.

    The bigger issue is the complete fraud of SpaceX valuation. Terafab is not something they have compentence for, and space datacenters are simply more expensive, and cannot replace GPUs after 5 years obsolescence. Being angry at Musk's wealth is pointless. Distracts from the direct fraud and theft of Nasdaq Index shareholders, and those who don't time their dumping when indexes are forced to buy.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Well, they brought Intel on for the Terrafab so depending on how involved they are, the knowledge they need is there. SpaceX and Tesla know how to build big vertically integrated factories as well, so the combo could work.

    The satellites very well could be cheaper given land costs, power issues, water issue, cooling issues, NIMBY issues etc etc. They already mass produce satellites cheaply, and these satellites are more simple than starlinks other than they have a lot more solar panels and a bigger radiator.

    The issues with the satellites being successful completely hinges on starship succeeding and being rapidly reusable. If they cant get to that point, then the satellites will cost too much to launch.

    The 5 year GPU obsolescence isnt an issue, they're only going to have a 5ish year lifespan anyway before deorbiting.

    If starship works, the data center dishes will work, but just because they work, doesnt mean there's enough people out there to use the AI inference compute they want to launch. I think thats where its going to fail. Not enough people want to use the pricey AI, and these crazy valuations assume people will. Its the same problem at all the AI companies.

    All that being said, the IPO was still crazy overpriced.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    $30m launch costs seem a floor. Very high employee count. Higher maintenance than planes per flight, Expensive rockets. Very complex attachment/detachment from solar+radiators that would last longer than 5 years (apparently they scrap solar/radiators every 5 years because that is too complex)

    AI 1 is 125kw. $2.5m would be building allocation. $625k-$1.5m would be solar power costs with battery. All in US. Cheaper elsewhere. lasts 30+ years = 6 launches. Nebraska farmland would be under $1000/year (4 acres) for 1mw of solar, batteries, datacenter. Desert land in NV $100/year.

    At well over 2x the cost for a space datacenter, you need to charge 2x the rate to terrestrial competition. But its much more than 2x more expensive. 150kw of space solar is $4.5m. 18x more expensive yearly, though even at 1/10th cost, 1.8x more expensive yearly. Radiators, shielding another $600k, so adding to best case solar, 3.3x more expensive/year. Comparing launch costs to building to get just 2x price difference, needs $1m/satellite(with solar/radiators) launch costs which is the just fuel costs.

    I didn't include the minimal land lease requirement for fully green earth datacenter. An unsustainable aspect of current space law is that SpaceX gets free squatter's rights for first to take valuable Sun Synchronous Orbit, including using the most convenient wasteful overuse of prime solar facing angles that denies space to all others. In it's current wasteful design, if a 1m wide window was taxed at $1000, they would pay $70k/year in taxes to UN/global UBI fund. If they redesigned to a 1x500m solar array, they'd pay $1000 in taxes, but leave room for them and others to fill the rest of SSO space. The value of that space fully saturated could fund $47B/year of something earth people need.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    I think you're estimates for launch costs are off. Starship is targeting $50-$200/kg or lower if they are successful. In the short term, you're $30 million is probably more correct or maybe even to low, but they will very likely lose money while they iterate on reusability and get the costs down to their expected levels.

    It's going to take a lot of launches to get Starship to the point of reusability where the $50-200/kg comes true, but they need to launch something to help recoup those costs which is what starlink/ai will be. I'm not convinced the AI dishes will generate as much revenue as they think though and that it will still be a loss.

    The current spec'd ship can theoretically do 100T+ but that'll be expanded, but that puts all in launch costs and staffing and refurbishment etc at around $5-20 million per launch. You don't sell it for $50/kg if you can't eventually support the whole business at $50/kg.

    Assuming they can fully utilize the 100T with these dishes that's ~50 DC Satellites per launch as currently designed, or ~6250Kw compute and 7500Kw of solar per launch. (edit: for reference, its going to be 60 starlink v3, so if physical size isn't a limiting factor, just 10 less dishes)

    I don't know where you're getting $4.5 million for 150kw of solar. Space will be more expensive, but it's $1.1-$1.5w in the USA right now at large commercial scale on land, and SpaceX will be making their own so there's no profit margin on that. You're putting it at 20x-27x the cost of land solar after someone takes a profit.

    I have no idea what radiators will cost, but they figured it out for Starlink v3, this will just be a lot bigger. (edit: i do expect it to cost less than the solar array though, it should be simpler)

    I think we might get a lot more details on what things could actually cost, if we can get any leaked or real info about what a Starlink V3 satellite costs, which maybe now that they're public, that will come out once they start launching? They might obfuscate the per dish cost though by grouping it with other things?

    I like your idea of some future taxing of usage in space. As it gets more crowded, more money will need to be spent on monitoring it, and coordinating things all of which is an ongoing cost, and taxing it yearly/per dish to help fund research and such would be great.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Starship is targeting $50-$200/kg or lower if they are successful.

    $30m is $200/kg for full starship capacity (150T). AI1 is volume constrained.

    where you’re getting $4.5 million for 150kw of solar. Space will be more expensive, but it’s $1.1-$1.5w in the USA right now at large commercial scale on land

    $4.5m is standard space GaS solar cost. SpaceX does claim $3000/w. $450k. 1MW solar in US is under $1m. Add 16 hour battery 2mwh = $200k. At $1m space equipment before GPUs, is $6m equivalent terrestrial costs due to 5 year replacement. Actually 5x the cost. You can also cut earth costs by over half by installing in China or Mongolia with the same latency to US as from space.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago
    [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    He would probably start caring if it were South Africans that were dying

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Why exactly did we need tariffs on EVs? Because it sure looks like Biden put those in place to protect the business interests of a Nazi who is now a trillionaire.

  • source
  • 13 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 42 points 4 months ago

    Every empire of wealth is built on suffering and exploitation.

  • source
  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    He did the Nazi salute like two years ago. He still got richer and got to a trillion $ without issues. We truly do live in the dumbest timeline.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago
    [–] 13 points 4 months ago* (6 children)

    He's not a trillionare, and we all know the AI tech bubble is about to bust.

    So we can be optimistic that he's about to loose some billions with this IPO

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    He’s not a trillionare

    Because it's all stock. It's not real money. All the values are made up numbers by stock traders. And foremost : Most -if not all- of it is over-over-over valuated.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, but that's not my point.

    His value isn't a trillionare, yet. They're assuming he will be one after the IPO. But it could just tank. We don't know the value yet.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    I think this will likely be the high water mark as everyone in ai sees the writing on the wall, all of the upcoming ai ipos are either postponed or sped up so the investors can get their money before everything goes south

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    "Nazis conquers the world"

  • source