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[–] 1 point 1 year ago

I love it when posts line up like this

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  • [–] 96 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Or education could be free. Just a thought.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    free? people should be paid to get an education

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Not sure if it's still a thing but I knew a girl from Norway who basically went to college from age 18-30 getting like four different degrees because as long as she remained in higher education, the government would keep paying for her education + living expenses.

    Not sure if that was the original intent but it sure does result in a highly educated populace.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Norway here: This is kind of how it works, but not quite.

    While studying, you get a student loan. 40 % of that loan is automatically "forgiven" (turned into a stipend) as you complete your courses. In order to remain eligible for the loan, you need to maintain a certain progression in your studies, and there's also a limit to how many years you can receive the stipend for (I think it's eight years now). As long as you're studying, the loan doesn't accrue interest, and you don't need to make down payments.

    Throughout five years, I received very roughly 200k NOK (≈20k USD) in stipend, and 300k NOK in loans.

    Also, a PhD is treated as an ordinary job here. I'm paid about 600k NOK (≈60k USD) per year, which is a bit less than my peers from engineering studies in industry jobs (they get around 700-800), but it's by no means a bad pay. I've been able to afford a small apartment together with my SO on that pay. Hearing about places where people have to take up loans in order to finance taking a phd makes my head spin.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    In America you usually do get paid for the PhD, you however get little other support snd the pay is bad

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What do you mean by "little other support"? I don't get any other "support" from my job as a phd than my salary?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Little other support as in it's common to take on more phd candidates than there are resources for leading to issues like needing to fight to get lab time. At least according to some people I know who've been in phd programs here.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Huh. I just kinda assumed Norway would use the Euro, but TIL it's not even a member of the EU. Weird.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    We are part of the EEA. The agreement between the EU and the remaining EFTA members. (Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland.) For Norway's part it means we adopt the legislation as national law (we can veto, but seldom happens) and are part of the inner market but not the customs union. Also special agreements on energy (oil) agriculture and fishing. We have no representation in the parliament or the commission. We participate on beurocratic level but cannot vote on anything. (I represent Norway in two 'group of experts" and two administrative cooperation groups) GoE discusses things on a higher level AdCo lower level and market surveillance. We have a voice, but always a little bit apart.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    We have a "complicated" relationship to the EU. There was a vote in the '90s where we decided not to join, and now we're connected through the EEA (which another comment treats in detail). Today, the EU debate is rising again, largely because of the war in Ukraine. However, it seems like public opinion is still marginally opposed to membership due to our somewhat special situation regarding oil, hydropower, and (lack of) agricultural land.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    It is in first world countries, if we define first world as having good educational system, healthcare system, public transportation…

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    American public universities used to be free. But a lot of students protested things like racism and the Vietnam War so Ronald Reagan as governor of California and later as president worked hard to ensure that American students had to pay lest they have the time and financial freedom to exercise their rights

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Give it 5-10 years and every college age person being funneled into the trades, then they will be oversaturated again and we will go back to overpacking STEM

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Probably a lot of missing context with this one

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  • [–] 159 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The boomer energy is strong with this one.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If they were boomers then the phd one should've paid off more of that student debt

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The Boomer term has shifted to being about state of mind.

    This started after "ok, boomer" caused all these people to out themselves.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    I mean, depending on the context, you might absolutely be the asshole

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago

    I became a homeowner recently and a bunch of people I know just reacted with absolute jealousy and negativity. People suck

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    People typically get paid to earn a PhD, so this person's debt likely came from elsewhere, unless they grossly overpaid for their undergraduate education.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I haven’t been to 9gag in forever, not sure if this is a really bad meme or a great shitpost

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Out of the 8 cousins in my family the 2 of us that didn't go to college are the only ones who own a house. I didn't finish 10th grade and I'm looking at buying my second house and trying to figure out how to keep my current one to give to my mom.

    My cousins are pretty cool (aside from a couple who are very spiteful) but my aunts and uncles act like I scammed them all for everything they had.

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  • [+] 49 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Oh. I hadn't read it like that. I thought the brother was a hypocrite because if he has a PhD he SHOULD be able to pay his debts and get a hose (I'm not from the us so I'm guessing that part) but I stead seems to not ba able to manage his own money while criticizing OP

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    College graduates (PhD or otherwise) drowning in debt and not being financially able to pay it off is common enough here in the US that it's a trope, and likely the basis for this "joke".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I see. Thanks. Lately I've started to realize just how expensive health and education are in the us.

    I went to see a neurologist and paid 0 cents My brother is considering a biology PhD and he's broke. A 3 bedroom house costs like 60k usd

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    That same house in my area costs at least 10 times that amount. I was lucky in that I had "only" $80,000 of debt from my bachelor's, a housing situation via marriage, and a career path with solid pay (after going back for an associate's while working in a low-paying job post-graduation for 7 years). I only finally paid off that debt 2 years ago and I graduated in 2008. I don't know how a lot of people manage.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I have a lot of respect for the people that do it but I couldn't. I have two left hands and am fairly skittish when it comes to human excrement.

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  • Then it sounds like HVAC/Refrigeration it the trade for you. It's kind of funny because we tend to get all the people who dropped other trades for various reasons. I work with ex plumbers who didn't want to deal with shit, I work with journeyman electricians who didn't want to spend 8 years becomming a master electrician, I work with ex building automation guys who got tired of trying to automate busted equipment. A lot of my coworkers started in other trades, went "This fucking sucks" and switched to HVAC-R.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    It's not all just poopoo peepee stuff. A lot of plumbers do mechanical work in commercial buildings, boiler retrofits, repiping, construction. I'm in commercial HVAC and work with a bunch of plumbers whose skills and scope of work have great overlap with mine. I've also helped them out doing boiler retros/repipes. We offer similar services, subcontracting each other to our own customers, just they do more of the gas fired work and fix leaks in heating loops and I do the AC/Refrigeration stuff

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    There’s other hand-craft trades that don’t involve sewage. If you get into the commercial space, there’s a good chance you’d deal with it a lot less if at all since they would need a specialist for biohazards.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Plumbing isn't exactly rocket science. And with some infra companies you don't have to deal with any nasty parts.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Depends on what level you're at. I had a friend help us install a new septic system. Holy shit was there a lot more to it than I ever guessed. Had no idea surveying gear was required.

    At a higher level, same guy drafts plans for military bases and hospitals. Then he goes in the field to troubleshoot issues. Plumbing includes gas if applicable!

    Most of us are familiar with, if not doing the work, the principles behind fixing a leak, replacing a sink or toilet, etc. I can do all of the above, but I don't know the fine points in doing it right. There's far more to residential plumbing than most see.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    In my experience a lot of those jobs are handled by more specific people I wouldn't exactly call just plumbers. There's far more to it than people realize for sure but it's still not rocket science.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Pretty sure that didn't happen

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    Your personality didn't work out, but mine did? Oh, how my dominance displays! I have no justification for my existence!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (14 children)

    So why are they not helping their brother?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Their brother is a grown-ass man and should be helping himself.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    He should pull himself up by the bootstraps to proove his manly manliness?

    I love how we all agree on the general problem of capitalism but God forbid we apply it in our daily life.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Decisions have consequences. Brother 1 chose to be 140K in debt. Brother 2 didn't. It's not Brother 2's problem to solve.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Nah, they decided to buy a more affordable car with only a 3-star crash rating because they decided to get stressed about their only financing option being complete dogshit because of a wrecked economy, because they decided to have a job that required going into the office.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Sure, but nobody would choose to be in a car crash.

    Bro chose to go into debt. Big difference.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    If that's how you see our familiar relations sure, you're your own individual. But boy I'd hate to be your family member.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "I chose [X] of my own free will. Now I'm unhappy with that choice. Fix it for me." No.

    "Events outside my control have made things hard. Help?" Yes.

    See the fucking difference?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    The difference is not my point at all.

    If my brother, at a very young age, had made the reasonable decision of pursuing higher education as a path in life, and due to a wide variety of circumstances is in financial trouble and I could help...

    Guess what, I'm helping. I do not give a fuck if there's a difference, my guy. And I also know my brother would stop in the middle of a career defining work meeting and come rescue me if I was in trouble.

    And I wouldn't trade that kind of relationship for your world view.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nah, no one would choose to be in debt.

    Bro chose to get an education. Big difference.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    He chose to get an education he couldn't afford, so he took out loans. Now he is in debt.

    Either he did this with his eyes open, in which case it's his problem to solve,

    OR

    He did this WITHOUT knowing the consequences, in which case he should have fucking read the fine print and it's his problem to solve.

    I agree the cost of education is out of control, but nobody forced him to do it. He chose to. Now he can deal with it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    So when a tradesman's back finally gives out and he gets fired for not showing up to work, he should not be eligible for unemployment, medicaid, medicare, food stamps, housing assistance, subsidized health insurance, or any other publicly funded assistance. That's his problem to solve.

    After all, the data has always shown that this is the sacrifice you make by not going to college. Degrees have always been economically worth it in the long run, and that information was always readily available, so why is it everyone else's problem and cross to bear when one more plumber decides he actually can't do this job until he's in his mid sixties? We should just let people die for making poor choices.

    OR

    We live in a society that requires a variety of skill sets and knowledge bases, including the trades, retail, food service, the sciences, the humanities, medicine, and plenty of other fields that require postsecondary study. We should remove all financial barriers to education, and we should eliminate student debt, because it serves no purpose other than lining the pockets of large financial institutions. And generally speaking, you know, we should take care of glaring issues we see in our society, like a plumber who can't work for medical reasons or a Ph.D who can't effectively contribute to society because he's crushed by student debt. And we should do all of those things with public assistance programs.

    Also, "should have read the fine print" is a dead giveaway for being on the unethical side of an argument.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What makes something somebody's problem to solve, exacly?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago

    Probably them choosing to do the thing. Someone doing a PhD might be hoping to land a good job later on and be able to through that pay off the debt. Or they want to pursue their passion, even if it means debt. It's a decision to go for those. Could've gone to trade school.

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