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[–] 32 points 5 months ago (1 child)

I want real consequences for this stuff. It's great that they are getting chastized but this stuff needs to result in disbarment or the like. In engineering if you put a PE stamp on something that isn't to standard or if you are found guilty of ethical violations you don't get to keep practicing as a PE. The same standard needs to be applied to other professions. Citing a fake case is a fucking huge ethical violation and malpractice, and needs to be treated as such.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago*

    This is just the dressing down part. The formal sanctions come after.

    What's really amazing to me is that the city's lawyer didn't catch and call them out. That's also showing a lack of professionalism and ethics because it is clear that they did not read and consider the opposing party's arguments.

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  • 14 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 75 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Good. Get the lawyers irritated about the unapologetic use of AI. Maybe their congressional pals will listen to them

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  • [–] 37 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I'm sure AI could solve this problem. /s

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    remember kids GIGO "Garbage In, Garbage Out".

    the general public just isn't aware of this. they assume that anything and everything an LLM spits out is fact. Again, the LLM/AI MUST provide a solution. any solution. that solution doesn't need to be correct or even exist but in order to retain users it will and will consistently and constantly provide a hallucinated solution.

    And in most cases, without their knowledge, the user is also to blame. I can see a lawyer asking an LLM "are there any cases where such and such happened" trying to find something INCREDIBLY specific to what they need and the LLM 8 times out of 10 will say "yes! there is!" and hallucinate a case that the lawyer needs. You see it all the time if you ask Claude with assistance in trouble shooting a specific tech or code problem. "I'm having issues with this and this, can this library or app or program solve this for me?" "Yes! here's how" and then will tell you something the library or program or whatever can't even do but you've lead it to that direction and it MUST provide a positive retention-able solution.

    Even using AI as it SHOULD be used is no longer good. just using it as a sort of rubber duck doesn't help anymore because of GIGO. the training data, across ALL LLMs, is so tainted now you might as well take all the money we're wasting on data centers and tokens and just toss it at the crazy dude outside the bus station and just ask them the same questions.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago*

    Socrates was famously called the 'gadfly' because he would pester elites by challenging their supposed wisdom. People that would be highly knowledgeable craftsman, financiers, politicians, etc. would then over estimate their knowledge outside of their realm of expertise and claim to be wise in all things. They would know just enough to sound knowledgeable, but really know very little about what they were talking about (related to the Dunning-Kreuger effect). The takeaway of Socrates' gadfly work is that sometimes wisdom is acknowledging when you do not know something.

    AI can have a lot of "knowledge" (it doesn't actually know anything itself, but rather has pattern training and access to data references). But what it doesn't have.... like at all... is wisdom. It doesn't understand, literally, anything at all. It might have some guard rails up to limit is hallucinations. It might even say, sometimes, that it doesn't know. But it is just as happy to ramble on with pure and complete nonsense that is all just a stream of patterns training and probabilistic guesswork. If it has a nugget of data or even an entire library related to your prompt, it will present it to you. But it can 100% just fill any gaps or take the response into tangents that are nothing but guess-the-next-word, probability, looks-good-to-me word salad that can contain several "facts" that are nothing but random word associations from its training with no reference for its basis.

    It is a glorified autocorrect. You cannot trust its information blindly, and using it as a tool in this way, especially while staking your fucking law career on it, is goddamned moronic.

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  • [–] 24 points 5 months ago

    Should be immediately disbarred

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  • [–] 45 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Judges: expressing mild confusion and concern

    Headlines: Judges RIP INTO lawyers with their BARE TEETH as they can BARELY CONTAIN their EXPLOSIVE FIREY RAGE!!!!

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago

    To be fair, mild confusion and concern is the judicial equivalent. Even the diehard maga judges still behave with decorum, even if their ultimate judgments are unhinged.

    There's a common and expected way to do lawyering. If a judge "expresses concern" towards a lawyer, that's a big sign that you dun fucked up.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago

    The executive branch makes all kind of shit up. Why aren't you letting these lawyers? Seems unpatriotic.

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  • 6 comments in c/enshitification@slrpnk.net view that post
    [–] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Maybe issuing an automated loss to the party that uses LLMs to hallucinate arguments would change their mind.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Suspension of law license, hefty fines, and disbarment would all be far better than simply auto-losing a case. If anything, the people who hired said attorneys should be able to sue for compensation of legal fees and any other monetary losses due to their attorney’s gross negligence.

    And, said attorneys should be legally required to take out at minimum a half page newspaper article, radio ad space, and tv ad space explaining what happened and why.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I think of all the comedies where the idiot who cites joke cases.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Slop, slop, tada la la la la 🎶

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  • 3 comments in c/pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub view that post
    [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Tonight! On Douche Court

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    There was a great LegalEagle video from a year ago with the judge ripping apart the lawyers who may have been the first to cite made up cases with AI.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Lawyers being rats? Say it ain't so

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