This is in fact incorrect: the right doesn't say corrupt government is the problem The right says trans kids and brown people are the problem. Because the right is dumb as a fucking brick, and the billionaires managed to brainwash the dumb right into hating someone other than themselves.
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George Soros
I love how at least like a decade ago, Soros and Gates were the only billionaires that the right hated and somehow they also thought those two billionaires were commies or something and that people on the left loved them. Well maybe Gates was doing a solid whitewashing campaign but Soros? Never heard anyone praise him.
gates started getting hate starting the pandemic, apparently anti-vaxx is the key to unifying the "conspiracy theorists(from left to right wing) and right wingers. Soros is a little harder to figure out, maybe its the way he earn his money? through his stocks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Society_Foundations
They seem to think this makes him a leftist idol or something, or that he controls left wing narratives and nobody actually wants equal rights for everyone without a billionaire promoting it.
they assume, because the right wing billionaires are doing what they accuse soros/gates of. because most leftists arnt even aware of SOROS, or they care unlike right wingers that seems to suck thier knob at every opportunity. it could be thier mental gymnasitcs, is that soros is trying to help people, rather than be like a typical psycopath billionaire(they are jealous).
granted gates is pretty much a typical billionaires, its epstein files/ ruthlessness during his MS years he was trying to distance himself away. thats why i always felt he was quite disengenious.
I know this is a shitpost, but I've seen people legitimately give this argument like it's a gotcha. It's like, okay? So if we get rid of the corrupt billionaires running the corrupt government, then the other corrupt billionaires will use their vast wealth to seize power for the billionaires again, so the problem is indeed the corrupt billionaires - we need to get rid of them all. It's like taking antibiotics - you can't stop when you start feeling better, you can only stop when you've gotten rid of the whole infection, or it'll just come back stronger.
so…. then it’s the billionaires. got it.
For real. Both sides guy is an idiot.
Both sides are now 30% of the electorate or less (pick your poll, D&R are very close).
Independents are now 40% of the voters.
Critical mistake that Dems make is thinking independent means centrist
Both sides is a pretentious asshole, are you seriously suggesting that 30-40% of all politically active US citizens are pretentious assholes?
I am an independent and I have zero issues seeing the ruling class and the culture they have created as the problem. Blaming it on the government is short sighted and plays into the wealthy's hands. That is just stupid in my book.
Fun fact! The picture of the girl in this meme comes from this video, (relevant portion about 3 minutes in) in which she's by far the calmest and most reasonable person involved. She's not even angry, she just has kind of an expressive face, and she looks like that for all of exactly one frame
Some psycho combed through this video frame by frame to find the least flattering picture of her possible. Rightoids need to die out man
I actually didn't know this. She really does seem like a sweet and friendly person. It's a shame she's being used as a symbol for crazy by the right, when she's actually the opposite.
I was just thinking, "what is that woman's story?" Glad to hear it isn't something like she was turned into a meme and whatever little mental health she had shattered, and now she spends all her time shut in her parent's basement. Thankfully, the real story isn't as dark as my imagination.
therefore, corrupt billionaires are the problem
The left also thinks corrupt government is a problem
Meanwhile the right proudly advertises their love for corrupt billionaires
Its not like that at all.
The left is saying billionaire are the problem. Their existence is a sign of corrupt system.
The right is saying all the left is corrupt. They don't mind their corrupt politicians.
Also everyone should go check how this left meme started. The lady in the picture was actually very calm and reasonable. Perfect metaphor for how the right manipulates the media into creating stories out of nothing.
Corrupt billionaires is redundant. You cannot have billionaires without a corrupting influence on government. Even if there were such a thing as a "good billionaire", it wouldn't justify the risks posed by all the bad ones.
Why does everyone always miss the point that Tyler Durden is a fucking fascist.
Really changes what this meme means.
He's not a good person's identity, by any means. But he's not fascist.
He wants to return to a glorified past that never existed by tearing down the current system, a return to where everyone is living off the land like early humans ("climbing the vines growing along the Sears tower"). He promotes the idea that men must return to being warriors, and something about the modern world has made them "weak." He promotes that such strength must be used to dominate, and claims it can be used to improve people's lives, as he claims with Raymond K. Hessel (whom Tyler threatens to murder if Hessel does not follow his dreams), despite the fact that Hessel is most likely left devastated with trauma and unable to move forward due to fear of being murdered. We never see Hessel's outcome, so Tyler gets to pretend he "helped" by completely traumatizing a person (reminds me of Trump bragging about "lifting people off of food stamps" when he actually kicked them off and made them more hungry, his followers don't see the outcome so they just believe the lie). Tyler captures the attention of disaffected, alienated young men and brings them under his wing to become part of their in-group, making them more likely to go along with extreme demands because now they have found family in Project Mayhem. He literally beats the living shit out of one of his men, destroying his pretty face, and yet still commands the respect of his men while disfiguring one of them potentially permanently. With Project Mayhem he intends to bring about his ideal world by force.
So we have numbers 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13 of Umberto Eco's 14 features of Ur-Fascism in Tyler and Project Mayhem, in my opinion.
But sure, he's not a fascist.
Its been a long time since I've seen the movie but I always thought he was an anarchist who just wanted to burn everything to the ground.
I mean, presenting themselves as just standing for the common man and wanting to tear down a broken system and don't have ulterior motives is one hundred percent on brand for fascists.
Also "waahhh, my penthouse is too nice, my job is too boring, I get paid too much and I'm a bored white man" is the narrator, the man Tyler was covering up, a weak man's idea of a strong man. "I look how you wanna look, I talk how you want to talk, I fuck how you want to fuck." He is literally a manifestation of what the narrator, a weak person, thinks a strong person is.
Without your bad rephrasing:
1 - "The cult of tradition" - At no point he gives any shit to tradition
2 - "The rejection of modernism" - That's partial at best, and partial hits do not count on that scale
3 - "The cult of action for action's sake" - Yes
4 - "Disagreement is treason" - Absolutely not
5 - "Fear of difference" - Dude, how the fuck did you claim he hits that one? Absolutely not
6 - "Appeal to a frustrated middle class" - Yes
7 - "Obsession with a plot" - Yes
8 - cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak" - Their enemies are never strong
9 - "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" - Absolutely not
10 - "Contempt for the weak" - Absolutely not
11 - "Everybody is educated to become a hero" - Yes
12 - "Machismo" - Yes
13 - "Selective populism" - Yes
14 - "Newspeak" - No
Anyway, it's complete bullshit to just list those criteria like they are a checklist. I've listed them here just to show that even that bullshit argument is bullshit by its own standards.
Are you claiming that fascists don't need to be authoritarian? It's not on the list, by the way.
- Rejection of modernism. He literally wants to return to a tribal society. He says this specifically in both the book and film, he describes the future he sees:
“In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rock feller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighways.”
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Fear of difference. He literally beats the shit out of the pretty guy for being "different" and pretty. Project Mayhem are all forced to dress the same and have no names. They are forced to shave their heads and become his "space monkeys." They are berated for a week in front of the building before being accepted. EDIT: Further, this treatment of the Project Mayhem recruits is authoritarian, they have to follow all Tyler's rules which they repeat them ad nauseum and they have to shed their prior identity to fit into the new group.
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Cast the enemies as both too strong and too weak. In the film Tyler plans to destroy credit card companies and reset debt to zero, a lot of people would claim the financial system is an enemy that is strong, but also portrayed as weak when they strong-arm the politician threatening to cut his balls off. In the book he wants to destroy museums, destroying history, writing a new history, which is also fascist. He says museums represent a dead world and that "this is our world now."
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Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. They threaten to cut off people's balls who threaten to expose them, the cops are literally about to do it to the narrator/Tyler himself at the end of the film, because stopping Project Mayhem is a pacifist route.
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If you don't see the contempt for the weak here and how they only accepted Bob into their fold because the narrator pitied him, I don't know what to tell you. Tyler would have rejected Bob as unfit and weak. When their homework is to go start a fight, the lesson is that most people will avoid fights (and by extension this makes them "weak"). Fight Club is portrayed as "strong" because they will chase a fight. They're different, they're special, they're enlightened by violence (once again, fear of difference).
These are the ones we obviously disagree on, so these are the ones I'm addressing.
But yeah, 10 out of 14 is pretty telling in my opinion. No, this list of Eco's isn't definitive, but it's got good depth and is a good starting point showing that clearly Tyler has fascist tendencies. Enough that I am comfortable calling him fascist
EDIT: Also while there is no strict nationalism, the entire plot is deeply Amero-centric and treats the rest of the world as though it functionally does not exist when it comes to Tyler's plans.
"You wake up at Seatac, SFO, LAX. You wake up at O'Hare, Dallas-Fort Worth, BWI. Pacific, mountain, central. Lose an hour, gain an hour. This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. You wake up at Air Harbor International. If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?"
Not. a. single. foreign. airport. Not even Canada.
It's been too long since I've read the book, but at least in the film it's consumer culture in particular that he's talking about when it comes to modernity. I think most of us agree with him on that one
“In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rock feller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighways.”
Tyler Durden in Fight Club. There's a similar, slightly shorter version in the film when the narrator is in his "coma" and wakes up to Tyler gone, this is the dialogue Tyler speaks as he is abandoning the narrator just as the narrator's own father abandoned him.
I don't know how to read that any more clearly as a complete rejection of modernity, not just consumer culture.
I haven't read this book in almost 20 years myself, but I remember these salient aspects of the text.
EDIT: Does no one else remember this kind of media from the early 2000's (and really made it around on reddit, it was quite popular) clearly inspired by Fight Club and the "what to do in an emergency" flight cards, which the comic obviously mimics. To act like this wasn't a major theme is literally absurd. The comic is presented in "how-to" format starting as a white collar office worker riot that eventually leads to the office being a tribal society inside the office building.
Obviously Fight Club Inspired Comic:

Emergency Flight Card from Fight Club:

Probably the same people who thought RATM went political in the mid teens...
In 2007 I was in the passenger seat of my girlfriend's shitty Kia because I didn't have a car.
We stop at a stoplight and up next to us pulls up a shiny new blue Audi, and two fratbros with popped collars and sporting Oakleys.
Their speakers are on extremely loud and blasting System of a Down, specifically "Fuck the System."
I couldn't help but think "Man, I'm pretty sure these guys are the system."
Well....in my defense.....I've never heard of Tyler Durden before. Is that the guy in the meme on the top right?
Bottom-center. This is if like the bottom was Steve Bannon.
.......that's not Brad Pitt??? I thought that was Brad Pitt.
Wait what
What fascist wants to destroy all the debt records
The right elected the most corrupt government we have had so far.
This has to be one of the most boomer out-of-touch I'm-a-cool-smart-guy memes I've seen on here, and that's saying something.
Billionaires aren't corrupt, they're ethically bankrupt; they're the corrupt_ors_.
Government officials are corrupt because they've been corrupted by the billionaire corruptors.
Getting rid of the billionaires solves both problems at once.
It's always funny to me when people say to put the billionaires in charge, it's always just like
The farmer is doing a bad job because they just let the fox into the henhouse, so instead we should put the fox in charge of the henhouse. The fox is best suited for the job because they have a lot of experience with hens and they know all the problems with the henhouses.
I was curious about what the site attached to the watermark was like: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-mind-unleashed/
The right in the US only says what their cult leader tells them to say. If he says the government is bad (which he often does when he's not the one running it), it's bad, but when he says it's good, (which he often does when he's the one running it) they say it's good.
Right, so the proper order of operations here is to get rid of the corrupt billionaires, so that we can clean up the corrupt government.
We really gotta stop using that girl in memes that make her seem crazy. She was the calmest most reasoned person in that video.
This is just acknowledging that the government wouldn't be corrupt without the billionaires. By the logic of your post, the left is correct and the right is not.
Yes, the post is meant to be pro-left.
But your first sentence in your comment is wrong. Classic correlation is not causation. With the addition of "if X is Y because Z, if Z wouldn't be, then X wouldn't be Y".
I was on the fence about this exact thing. My logic is that corruption requires wealthy/powerful people to be corrupt in favor of. If there were no billionaire class, no bourgeoisie, there would be no people who benefit from the oppression of the proletariat, so corruption as we conceive of it in modern America couldn't exist.
Of course, people will act unpredictably and some people with power will abuse it, but the whole system of billions being spent on campaign contributions and lobbyist dinners couldn't continue if there weren't entities with billions to spend.
If there were no billionaires, a corrupt person could still have power inside a government. Making it a corrupt government.
Then he could benefit from that corruption and become a billionaire.
It's not a one way relationship.
Corrupt entities make powerful people. And powerful people (sometimes) do make the entities corrupt.
And this is an issue for all political systems.
It's not a "get rid of billionaires and the issue is fixed". We must both redistribute power so it is at more reasonable levels. And clean the entities.
And once the power imbalance is smaller and the entities are clean, it is a constant maintenance fight to keep those entities clean and the power balanced.
A single democratic election can give a lot of power to a person that previously had none. Power is always flowing.
I just read that the English government is considering a Law that forbids politicians to lie. I actually thought that was the whole starting point of politics but somewhere down the road clearly they must have noticed that no-one cared, so they finally made sure we'd care.
A lil disappointing on the progression charts of evolution, but hey! We now can move on.
We have truth-in-advertising laws, and political campaigns are nothing more than marketing/ promotional/ advertising campaigns, so those laws should apply. If someone is making claims that are demonstrably false, their campaign should be ended, and their entire campaign fund confiscated, and they should be prohibited from ever holding office again.
They'll learn real fast.
So that would put you on the left.
No...it wouldn't.
Corrupt billionaires running the government means you think the problem is corrupt billionaires.
What exactly do you think socialism is?
Where did you get socialism from?
We're talking about the meme saying left wingers oppose billionaires.
Anyway socialism is when production, distribution, and exchange are owned/regulated by the workers/community.
I'm so tired of libs on this site dude. Go read Rob Paxton's The Anatomy of Fascism, it is ahistorical to suggest that the thing you're calling definitive of "left" (whatever the fuck that means to you people at this point) is enough to determine of someone is "left."
Or are you arguing that Elon Musk is correct about National Socialism?
Corrupt billionaires controlling the government in a fight to hoover up every last penny of the entire population of the earth are a substantial problem.
The majority of the right doesn't actually care about corruption as long as they see it benefiting them, or hurting the 'other team'. It doesn't actually need to benefit them it can even hurt them substantially, as long as it hurts the other side more and they are told they could have an advantage due to it.
In the end, the left politicians are as into the corruption as the right, they're just better at lip service and nothing is going to change.
I think that must be the most cold take anyone has ever had in the entire history of thinking. There were mollusks who already understood this. This isn't news to anyone.
Idk still seems like a majority of people still think if "their side" was in power it would fix everything.
In my country my side is in power and they're all useless. But it's still better than the alternative, at least we're not at war with Iran alongside the US and Israel. Which is what would have happened otherwise.
Everyone knows it's the rich and powerful who are in control it's why socialism is such an appealing idea, and why of course it will never happen.
So billionaires are the problem?
Extreme wealth disparity is the problem. When people can get vastly more rich than everyone else, to the point they can buy entire governments, the system turns from democratic to autocratic.
It's been a recurring problem in the US for generations, especially since the temptation once a person is elected into federal office (or even high state office) is to forgo fixing the system in favor of getting rich from lobbyist bribes.
Way too much credit is being given to both sides of this. Everybody is just cheering for one team or another with their votes. Whatever they say aloud doesn't really matter because the result is handing over any choice or real practical discourse to a handful of people who are entirely at the mercy of their political parties and the party sponsors.
Choosing a lesser evil is always better than doing nothing but we really need more than two choices at this point. The massive PAC funding has to go and campaigns really need to have extremely strict regulation that is thus far unprecedented imo. We also truly need national ranked choice voting, strict term limits for all elected positions and honestly, age limits too.
Would be nice if we had more popular vote based levers as well to force certain policies or decisions, but the tyranny of the majority has some challenges too. Maybe congress and the courts should be expanded so that more people are involved in the representation of a country that had ~26 senators and ~65 representatives in 1791 when we only had around 4 million americans. We are close to 350 million people now which is 87.5x more than then, so shouldn't the have closer to ~2275 senators and ~5688 representatives? Would be a hell of a lot harder to keep this many people in lockstep with "loyal" party line voting like there is today in our completely fucked system especially with term limits that mean they don't have to worry about re-election (maybe it should be one term only, ever. Longer duration but the citizens of a district should be able to vote to trigger a new election cycle for what's remaining in a term.)
Oh and districts at this point probably shouldn't be based on drawn voting maps. Everybody's social security number should go into a pool and be randomly assigned to a district in every state that corresponds to the amount of representatives they have. The voting places could be the same local ones and the tallies could still be done, we'd just need a number of voting forms in each voting location that corresponds to each district based on the amount of voters. They could even print these out on demand on the day of to avoid waste if we want to avoid a digital solution.
anywho, feel free to dunk on all of it. These words don't even matter, this will never happen. The ones in power run the show and do not want to give up their power.
Not much to disagree with here. I like the thought of future governments that are written to resist corruption. I think you raise several good ways to do this. I think ultimately electing by popular vote has to go away in favor of a system that randomly elects from a qualified pool with term and age limits.
A government has to be designed to resist corruption instead of embracing it.
Soon there will be a critical mass of people who have nothing left to lose. In these times people instinctively, correctly, lash out at those who have the most.



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