Small sample set aside, the performance differences here are much bigger than I've seen in previous linux comparisons. Something has to be off right? Curious if anyone is able to reproduce these results.

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[–] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Small sample set aside, the performance differences here are much bigger than I’ve seen in previous linux comparisons. Something has to be off right? Curious if anyone is able to reproduce these results.

Unfortunately the reviewer doesn't seem to mention a bunch of details about how the games were actually played such as, critically, which version of Proton he used. CachyOS ships its own version of Proton which pulls in a bunch of bleeding-edge features with significant performance impacts. I'm not sure if that Proton is used by default or not though; it may depend on the specific launcher used and configuration. Without knowing that, it's going to be difficult to attempt to reproduce his results.

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I like Nick but benchmarking isn't his forte. In all the articles and videos I've come across, most distros perform similarly, usually within the margin of error for most games. I can't imagine any set of optimizations that would lead to a performance increase on the level of a gpu upgrade. It doesn't make sense.

    Wendell talks about cachy quite a bit, I wish he'd do some testing but I'm sure he's already busy enough.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    It's running through Proton, he mentioned that in the benchmarks it shows up "as playing on windows" because of Proton.

    Other than that Nick is pretty transparent about what he does, if something is not mentioned it's likely whatever is default on the distro when running steam through flatpak (flatpak was mentioned).

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    30min video, 10mins of promotions... nope

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    I hate to keep being in these threads saying the same thing, but new people need to know:

    THERE IS NO APPRECIABLE PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANY LINUX DISTRO FOR GAMING

    Doesn't matter if it calls itself a "gaming" distro, or it wins by 10% in some benchmarks here and there. Any distro can be tuned like any other distro in every single way. No distro has any proprietary bits that make it better than another, and even if they did, you'd see devblogs or GitHub scripts you can one-shot to tune whatever you're running to perform similarly.

    Save yourself from falling for the hype, and save yourself the time of sitting through videos like this.

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago* (4 children)

    I would not recommend CachyOS to any beginners because after installation it still behaves like regular Arch. Just from today's update:

    Replace vlc-plugin-kwallet with cachyos-extra-v3/vlc-plugin-libsecret? [Y/n]

    That said, I don't agree with your claims. CachyOS puts a lot of effort into optimizing performance (at the cost of other things, e.g. disk space, server load, support for older hardware, ...), especially for gaming workloads. There have been many benchmarks that consistently show it performing better than other distros out-of-the-box. Generally, the advantage seems to be in the 0 to 15% range. Does that matter? That probably depends on who's asking.

    You are correct that all the optimizations are open for everybody to see and copy. However, the mainstream distros don't seem to be interested in doing that for now. And applying the CachyOS optimizations (different kernel, scheduler, optimized packages for Zen 4, ...) to other distros (say Ubuntu) is not really feasible or advisable for most users.

    PS: I had to look it up, and of course people tried xD.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I'm a Linux casual. Could you go into some more detail on what you're communicating with that update quote? Why is that bad?

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    It's not bad. It's just assumes you know what you're doing. That y/n option there, is one of them. I'm not a power user or anything, I know my way around a computer.

    I've been using CachyOS Linux since last October as my one and only OS on my laptop. It going great. There are some annoying stuff as well but that's because of Linux in general and not CachyOS specific. Laptops have many Linux unfriendly hardware in them so, you don't get full support out of the box if yours is brand new, however if you have a 1 or 2 year old laptop than it will most likely work out of the box. As for other examples of annoying stuff, I had problem with making my gaming mouse work and map the buttons, I went and asked AI to how to fix it and I've got it done. Because I couldn't find anything specific in the forums. Or just the other day I was having problems with my gamepad button mapping and had to ask AI again to fix it and it did.

    As for what I'm doing when I'm asked a y/n question like the example given I do a quick search and 9/10 times the first link would be the answer I'm looking for and I choose accordingly. Or you can go the ignorant way and just chose yes to everything (which I did before) and you'll be alright 99.9% of the time. I don't remember having problems because of it...

    So, it's not that mysterious or hard to understand and as a side effect you learn new stuff. Which is fun for me.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Yeah, 'y' every time should be pretty safe for updates, right? Like, the reason it's suggested is because it's the suggested alternative for the package it's replacing and the change has been tested by the CachyOS/Arch team(s) already.

    And worst case, something big breaks when you reboot, so you roll back to before the update, wait like a week, and try again (lol).

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    It's a type of question that Arch/Cachy often ask during regular updates. Here it's about replacing a package. Sometimes you also need to make a choice between multiple packages or even perform some manual actions (see https://archlinux.org/). This requires you to possibly look it up, understand the change, and make a decision. If you screw it up, you can break your system.

    My point was not that this is bad. Arch Linux is intentionally and explicitly targeted at proficient users. This is part of the deal. It can even be nice, because it gives you more insight into and control over what goes on under the hood in your system. However, I don't think this is a good experience for (most) new users.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    You can tune any distro to any degree you want and replace everything including a custom built kernel to get performance. But you know not everyone can/wants to do that, I have a toddler so I'm not going to take a whatever Debian and install a new scheduler and whatever just cause.

    You might forget that Linux desktop is growing super fast and fiddling with stuff under the hood is not that common and noobs and people with experience end up fucking things up constantly. Having something that's performant, optimised for your use case, whatever optimisations baked in won't break with updates and you can just install it and forget is a really big deal. This is just not something that was available.

    I think you should stop the hate and allow people to be happy with the distro they like for whatever reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'm still trying to get secure boot working... Their secure boot script might be missing some files to sign :(

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  • [+] -20 points 5 months ago* (34 children)

    The main reason to use cachy is not the performance. Its the lack of the absolute cancer that is a normal arch install. But cool that it actually does come with gaming configs that make a difference.

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  • [–] 35 points 5 months ago (32 children)

    archinstall straight from the ISO is cancer?

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  • [–] -4 points 5 months ago (31 children)

    Yes, a non graphical installer is inacceptable if you are trying to get normie people to switch to it from windows.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    I for one, would not suggest a Windows user to go straight to Arch. An Arch derivative, maybe.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    That's why they said they would recommend CachyOS. ;)

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I did however go from Windows to Arch. It wasn't a bad experience, and using command line isn't a big deal (to me at least.) But I am not the average Windows user. (Background in IT, for over a decade now. And I enjoy this stuff.)

    So mileage may vary.

    CachyOS is nice, I have used it; and I quite like it. I still use vanilla Arch for my machines outside of my steam deck.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    I personally know 3 people that have switched from lifelong windows to Cachy as their first linux experience and have had minimal issues. None beyond anything you would have on other distros. Im not using it myself, but i know it does what its supposed to, it just works...

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  • [+] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Typing terminal commands is actually the easiest and the fastest way to install a Linux system. It’s just not a normie way, obviously. For the folks that know what they’re doing and why they’re doing it, it’s just really simpler than walking through a GUI.

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  • [+] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Right you are! I needed to install Linux like five times recently, this month alone, and the best I invented is to just clone my laptop’s system (Arch, by the way) and then tweak a few things here and there. In the future, I guess I won’t even bother installing when I can clone my system within minutes (and half an hour on waiting for rsync to finish).

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah doubt Arch will be making any 4K 3D rendered graphical installers anytime soon. Sorry normies.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Well thats why Cachy exists, for sane people :)

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Makes me wonder how it compares to Garuda, which is more gaming-tailored and has a graphical installer.

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  • [+] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    Normies aren’t meant to be using Arch. Go get that popular piece of shite distro instead. Or better get Fedora or popos. Or Mint. Or whatever the next guy recommends. Like, FreeBSD, or better OpenBSD.

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  • [+] 3 points 5 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    Well, the FreeBSD and OpenBSD was more of a joke :) but, a normie just expects things to be very Windowsish, and when it’s not and even simpler, they’re getting lost for no real reason. It’s just different to what they’re used to. However, I’ve seen people not familiar with Windows well enough handling Unix-y interfaces okayish.

    To me, installing Arch is just very easy, as I’ve done it many times, and use the system for close to decade soon. It’s formatting your disks, adding that to a config — /etc/fstab — which is done with a simple command. Then you mount that disk of yours, pacstrap there (which means installing basic packages), chroot there, and do some more settings like setting locale and a hostname (and I guess missing to do it won’t brick anything, so you can skip or forget), perhaps something else you need to setup anyway, like creating a user. Install a bootloader, reboot. Done.

    FreeBSD is simple, but to me it’s not that simple, as its installation process is next next next, I don’t even remember how I installed it. Under the hood, I guess that’s all the same.

    By the way, I thought it’s worth mentioning it’s obvious that next next next approach is simpler to anyone. It’s that Arch’s way is simpler to someone who needs more control for some reason, or install these things often enough to justify that approach. It’s wrong that Arch has this vibe of ‘too difficult to even install.’ It’s not that difficult. What is is to know what you need to install and why. That takes years of using that system, so at first you follow some guide not really understanding what you’re doing.

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    I think FreeBSD is actually great, I’m looking for a reason to install it on anything just to have it around.

    And Gentoo too. I’m currently on a MacBook Pro (2014, Intel era) with Arch Linux. Weirdly, the hardware support is great, and it feels like even better than macOS. For some reason, some other MacBooks I have are much worse with some things Linux. Eg sleep and battery life estimation. But apart from that, they’re better than macOS, as they’re long obsolete.

    I want to have Gentoo somewhere, and I’m just not sure where to start. It surely have to be a separate machine to not hurry with the install and setting it up. (However, I expect that most if not all my user configs would just work, assuming the same software stack.) But that machine is expected to be powerful too!

    At this point, I think of getting a MacBook Air M1, perhaps the next year. Or maybe even years, depending on real life events, that’s rather a cool toy to me at this point than a real need. But ideally, I’d like to have it when being obsolete (not supported with macOS updates) and Neo having at least two or better three generations. Which would make its price to value very attractive. I thought of having Gentoo there, since Arch is not supported, and I’m not a big fan of Arch Arm project.

    I would like to use Gentoo so much, I thought of actually getting a used somewhat broken MacBook Air (I’ve seen one with partially broken screen for like a bit over €100), and use it as a test machine. Then, just buy another one, in a better shape when it would enter its obsolete state, which would inevitably happen at some sooner rather than later point.

    I expect it would be just perfect for Gentoo. FreeBSD, I have no idea. Thought of getting a tiny PC just for it, without any purpose in mind. Perhaps I’d find one along the way. I’ve researched briefly, and there are either Mac minis of 2014 with a very nice idle energy consumption and price locally (about €100 or even less). Or some N100 Chinese similar computer, but I have no idea about the hardware support.

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Oh wow, Solus is something I have never heard of. Or even if I did, I don’t remember. I gave it a quick glance, I it’s a Linux distro, so nothing too niche, right? Why did you pick it? I’d really love to find some blogs where people write on their daily experience with some things Linux. (I’m trying to start one, we’ll see how it goes.)

    MacBook Air M1, it should mostly work with Asahi Linux project. The hardware is really impressive. I thought of getting a modern ThinkPad instead, but it’s just an ugly heavy moist machine in comparison. From a laptop, I don’t need a tank. I have that tank in my primary desktop computer. A laptop is more of a lightweight toy to me. So that was my thinking behind the MacBook Air M1 running Gentoo idea. I expect it to be very well supported as it’s probably the best value you can get (assuming used, and assuming 10/10 repeatability is not a concern).

    I have a used Microsoft Surface RT3 (they would become Go line with the next model) running Arch Linux. I don’t even consider that device to sport Gentoo. I’m not well versed with Gentoo, but I remember you can actually compile from another machine, so theoretically I can use Gentoo even on a Raspberry Pi (well, that Surface I mentioned isn’t really far from my Raspberry Pi 2B). But to get there, I need to learn all those things :) It’s more like a chicken and egg problem now. I have a somewhat powerful PC (if we can call a quad core Intel i7 that), which I could use as a Gentoo compile machine. But it runs Arch and it’s my primary machine, so migrating it to Gentoo would not be very easy.

    Theoretically, an M1 Air is even more powerful than that. So, a perfect storm. All that is theoretical at this point though :)

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Thanks! A great read it was! Do you have / plans to have a blog by the way? You write quite well and interesting to read.

    See you around, have a great day.

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Blogging been a great help for me recently. In many aspects. I haven’t deployed mine yet, but it’s not far from it. I’d really recommend, especially if you learn something new. To each their own, but it looks like that’s the only proper way for me to learn.

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I like the way you formulate things. It’s similar similar to me, these periods of over fixation on something. Then something else. And I believe keeping these notes on Linux public is also helpful for both you and some (random or not) users. I try to avoid too personal information in the posts, but sometimes I think it doesn’t even matter. E.g. I was obfuscating some things like MAC addresses, then I thought what if I won’t, what would happen? Is there any attack surface? Still, I design this blogging system (my current hyper fixation) as to have most things public, with some private notes when necessary. As some bonus (or not), I have close to zero motivation to write for myself. Yet writing publicly or to someone is captivating and I have this motivation. Even in those cases when not many people read me. Or even when there’s nobody at all. Right now I have my blog on my Raspberry Pi, I want to polish some things here and there before deploying it publicly. And yet it’s truly interesting to work on, for some reason.

    I wish more people would do that. I’d love to read some ‘life journey’ kind of honest blog of some total rando, given that person would write honestly and not hustling, trying to sell something to someone. But rather writing stupid ordinary things, their life reflections, that type of thing. I’m willing to have a blog like that for myself too. But I just cannot come up with the implementation: what should it be? Just a randomly generated domain? Should I obscure names and places? I thought of using some rare language (e.g. Finnish) to also support that language, learn it, and avoid having too many readers I don’t welcome. But that is trivial to translate, so I’m not really sure. I want both honest content and not being attacked personally (especially irl) by some people while expressing myself. Some content, like political, sometimes is not even safe to publish, depending on the topic and the whereabouts of the person. That’s some completely different topic, there are should be plenty of examples, but the indie web I explored was quite poor on that. Even to get some ideas. Perhaps, I may make more attempts on this. I don’t know.

    Yeah, sorry:) have a great night, it’s late now here in my place.

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