Same. I'm looking into an EV, and I just want a simple car that goes and stops when I instruct it to. I don't need any kind of always-online service, I don't need cameras, etc, I just need to get to work and back.

Sucks to suck, our car companies suck and they absolutely should loose and be forced to fire people if they can't compete. Give me my cheap and decent Chinese cars please. I live in a capitalist country so lets act like it instead of being fucking pussys

Sadly, ever since “too big to fail”, any large corporation is now nearly indistinguishable from the federal government. Just another example of socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us.

To clarify, the bailouts of US car companies were Chrysler around 1980 and GM and Chrysler around 2008. To help them avoid bankruptcy and the resulting loss of jobs, they received loan guarantees (like having a cosigner) and direct loans, all of which they paid back. I think the public generally has a misconception that a corporate "bailout" means they just giving them money, but it doesn't.

Note - I'm not trying to convince you not to hate corporations, and there's no need for a lecture on how evil they are, I know they are. Just clarifying that one topic.

Not the same thing?

Well don’t forget that Walmart itself is literally government subsidized when the people employed there still need food stamps or other welfare programs.

Your point is? They are both shit, agreed. The fact that we have asshole corps here, doesn't mean we need more of them. We need to fight Walmart, not bring in the Walmart of cars.

A lot of these subsidies (both in the US and China) are implicit. Chinese state rail networks operate at cost, allowing cheap transportation of materials and labor. American borrowing is heavily subsidized through the Fed Credit Window, which keeps rates in the low single digits while corporate bonds and consumer loans can be 2x-30x as high. Both countries cut corners on environmental enforcement and subsidize waste management. Both countries subsidize education and incentive R&D through their university systems.

The real benefit BYD enjoys - even above its Chinese peers - is vertical integration. They own everything from mining interests to technology patents to dealerships. This is a deliberate consequence of Chinese trade policy, which requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital. Consequently, Berkshire Hathaway - a large early investor in BYD - cannot dictate Chinese vehicle manufacturing policy from a private office in Omaha. Chinese locals benefit from the innovation, the domestic capital, the experienced labor force (which can migrate to local competitors), and the increased economic activity it produces.

China is insourcing it's wealth aggregation, which has a cyclical compound benefit over time.

It doesn't make ours any better or cheaper, just everything else more expensive.

it also makes your domestic products more expensive because cars etc still have to source components and industrial machines from internationally so it’s tariffs all the way down

Yeah, our VP rides around in a 2-door coupe and he's very tall, while my coworker (who is shorter) drives a big SUV because "he doesn't fit in smaller cars." I'm also tall and drive a Toyota Prius, which is small.

At the end of the day, none of that's legitimate, it's just an excuse to buy the car you prefer.

Larger cars should cost more because they take up more space, wear out the roads faster, and impact the environment more.

His old one was very similar, but a darker colour so we called him The Fall Guy.

Or rather the few of us in the office old enough to remember that show did.

After the auto industry intentionally killed public transport.

The fact that one of the most powerful monopolies in the world went bankrupt and was forced to be bailed out by taxpayers more than once should really be a disqualifier for any future endeavors.

GM received more than $7 billions of subsidies and around $50 billions of "Federal loans, loan guarantees and bailout assistance".

US auto manufacturers are getting their fair share of subsidies.

When was the second bailout? Or the first if you're referring to something older.

Is it a level playing field? In China workers rights are pretty non-existent and there’s no OSHA equivalent, at least not to the degree we have in the US. Then add in government subsidies, lower worker pay, reduced R&D costs because they pilfered the engineering from a US company, and you end up with a very lopsided market.

To be clear, I am in no way defending the US auto industry. They have little customer loyalty for a reason – low quality, overpriced, subscription dependent vehicles with terrible warranties, expensive service requirements, and invasive telemetry. They need more competition to force them to make more consumer-friendly decisions, but China is hardly a fair competitor.

True, even Milton Friedman (barf) said we should be thankful if someone wants to subsides our lives. Besides these market extremists say all government intervention is bound to fail, so they should have nothing to fear letting the BYDs in. The socialist subsidy of BYD will collapse and we don't want the government distorting our market either.

This isn't really my personal take, but i like using their own logic to reach a conclusion they will hate.

Are you trying to be funny or something? Used electric cars aren‘t exactly going up in price. What a bunch of nonsense. Talking about cope.

The oil industry is famously completely independent from government subsidy. Especially when it comes to setting urban development policy and planning transportation systems, these have no bearing at all oil demand and they also cost nothing.

Compared globally? Yeah mostly so.

What subsides do US cars get that other countries don't have similar programs?

The majority shareholder at GM is the US treasury.

One of the majority holders at Stelantis is their workers' union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_2008%E2%80%932010_automotive_industry_crisis_on_the_United_States

A one time loan which made money is hardly a subsidy by comparison to China right now. That's an absurd comparison. Apples to oranges. Hell apples to baseballs.