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[–] 63 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (20 children)

It is going to be very funny (read: horrifying) watching the American economy entirely grind to a halt, due to our car centric design of everything just completely imploding as ICE vehicle commuting itself becomes a luxury.

We're so fucking delusional about this.

Cars are unaffordable.

Gas is unaffordable.

Public transit basically doesn't exist outside of some major cities, but not even close to all.

If it costs more to go to work and be able to go to work, than you are paid for working, it is imminently rational to not go to work.

Just most people in general will completely lose their minds as this gets worse.

What will win?

Just get an EV or Hybrid or Motorcycle or E Bike...

Or...

No, cuz that's gay/stupid/'unreasonable'... ?

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Or just can't afford to buy a new vehicle, ironically enough. I would love little more than to get rid of my car for an EV right now but I was barely staying afloat before gas prices started to surge, now it's just even more precarious.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    There's simple solutions for all of that:

    • Fire anyone who's not essential. Poor people don't have any money to spend anyway, firing them will not have big impact on the economy
    • With less workers you can transform free office space into dorms. Employees will be able to rent them for a small price.
    • Unemployed people don't have money to buy food so it doesn't matter if they can drive to the store or not, another problem solved
    • Put up military style camps with tents and bunk beds next to factories. Workers will be able to rent those beds and get basic food rations for a % of their salaries. No commute needed.
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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)

    I mean yeah, neo/techno-feudalism is the timeline we've collectively chosen here in the US.

    But that still runs into the problem of capitalism collapsing significantly when it destroys its own demand via destroying its consumer base.

    And it still means that a whole lot of people are basically just going to go literally insane, as the fabled promised bullshit of 'work hard and follow the rules and you'll be a billionaire too!' is more and more obviously exposed as a fantastic lie.

    The cognitive dissonance will get worse and worse.

    Some will actually conclude that everything they know is wrong... many others will not be able to do this, or manage that realization well, and they will become psychotic.


    There is another wrinkle to what you're describing though.

    Office space could have started to get transformed into residential space since covid made it obvious remote work is a viable paradigm, and thus commerical office space itself is significantly overvalued.

    But they didn't let that happen. Partly because managers and C Suite are narcissistic sociopaths who need to live a life where they get to neg their employees in person.

    Partly because if you revalue downtown office space property values, well, a whole lot of rich people become significantly less rich.

    So what I am trying to say is... they wont let those property values dive, to the greatest extent possible, and they can literally just do cartel style price fixing to do this.

    So it'll be they'll all just keep acting like their inner downtown core properties are absurdly valuable, and you'll be offered an indentured servitude contract where your downtown accommodations are fixed and rising, but your pay is variable and performance dependant.

    No one who agrees to anything like that will ever get promoted to any substantially important position (barring an occasional selected token exception that proves the rule)... though they'll create an entire internal and external 'company culture' that incredibly strongly implies that they will, reinforced with app kinds of propoganda, media, social media, etc.

    ... things like this will just keep occuring and get worse untill the proles basically kill these kinds of people. Otherwise, they'll just keep churning through the proles.

    The city is the plantation now.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (3 children)

    First, they are already solving the demand problem:

    https://www.marketplace.org/story/2025/09/17/top-10-of-earners-make-up-half-of-us-retail-spending

    The very small group of people with "important" positions in corporations will still be allowed participate in the wealth and drive demand. Everyone else will be forced to buy basic products like food and water at crazy prices basically giving away all income back to the corporation. Some tariffs, couple of wars and annexations will make sure they are not losing money.

    You're right about the office space property values. They will most likely not convert it into apartments. Better solution is to just allow workers to sleep under their desks. You get to keep your office space and workers don't have to drive. You wold obviously have to charge them some rent to cover the energy use during night but it wouldn't be that high. At first.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (2 children)

    Yes you bring up good points!

    I think we're both basically seeing the same kind of likely future, just from slightly different angles, or via slightly different extrapolated examples.

    Yeah.

    Yeah shit's lookin pretty bleak right now.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    For me this was always the future presented in many American SF movies and shows. Couple of nice office building in the center, elites living the American dream and slums full of wage slaves everywhere else. Running Man, Bladerunner, Robocop, In Time, Corporate, Altered Carbon ... They all nailed it.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    Apparently motorcycles are selling really well. Ebikes are gonna be big winners in town too. Transit ridership appears to.be slightly up but lots of cuties are still below pre pandemic levels due to cuts

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    I would LOVE a motorcycle, but the reality is that if anything hits you, even a tiny car, you're going to get smeared. Best case scenario, you just destroy one leg if you fall over.

    I have literally had dreams about riding a motorcycle, but I just can't balance the risk on that one. If the rider makes a small mistake, dead. If there is a foreign object in the road that you hit and go flying, dead. If a deer pops out in front of you, dead. If some crazy person in a tiny car gets mad at you, dead. If some crazy person in a big truck gets mad at you, dead.

    There are so many ways to be dead and so little between you and a lot of big immovable objects. Our little meaty bodies are not meant to sustain the forces that happen in a motorcycle crash. Yeah, you should wear a good helmet and all the riding gear, but at most, it will just serve to contain the meat paste that your body will be transformed into if you get hit hard.

    So depressing. It looks like so much fun.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    I sold my bike after getting into a head on collision in my car when some guy playing with his phone decided to smooch his headlights with mine, had I been on two wheels I’d be dead. Get a dirtbike and go off road, just as fun to twist the throttle without the traffic and road rage.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    But at the same time, using mopeds and motorcycles is extremely common in Central and South America, Asia, and Africa.

    And many of those places have road infrastrucure as bad quality as ours.

    Yeah, if 10% of US drivers just switched instantly from cars to motorcycles, that'd be quite dangerous, because most American car drivers are idiots who shouldn't own cars or be able to drive them.

    But... if 10 or 20 or 30% of US car drivers just... stop driving, full stop... and then more people switch to motorbikes...

    Might be less of a blood bath?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I don't want to justify the use of cars, but the reality is that it's a big place here. Also, much of the place has winter. A motorcycle is more of a toy than transportation unlike other countries. A lot of people can't afford a car and a motorcycle--hell, they can barely afford the car.

    Now our obsession with big trucks is just stupid.

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  • [–] 50 points 5 months ago (24 children)

    I'm patiently waiting to see what else it takes for Americans to overthrow this government.

    From his pedophile ring to unlawful executive orders, wars, tariffs.. Trump keeps breaking the law and acts outside their beloved constitution. All with consent from the majority in both ruling parties, either by direct support (R) or silence (D).

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  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    They won't.

    Despite what you hear on lemmy, the average american is not living in some kind of fascist hellscape. They are working a pretty decent job for a wage that pays their bills, and everything for them is more or less the same as it was under Biden. They are unhappy with the increased cost of things - but they aren't even close to "riot in the streets".

    Instead, their strategy will be:

    • ignore the federal government until the next election
    • vote in opposition politicians in city and state elections in the meantime

    Legally, the states can't make laws that contradict federal law. But as the case of marijuana legalization has shown, the federal government is very hesitant to push back on laws passed by states with broad popular appeal. So in the meantime, we'll likely see moves by the states to become more autonomous, and will see more anti-Trump politicians make names for themselves and get ready for the national stage.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    My 60 year old dad straight up said "idk why people get so worked up, the president won't affect your life that much anyway". Even people who hate trump still have families, children, a life that while bad, is still worth holding onto for them. Better to keep their head down and try to scrape by with their loved ones than go off to die in a revolution. And who would lead them?

    People like to talk about grand ideas of revolution and overthrowing government, but then reality sets in while trying to actually work out the nuts and bolts of it.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    some of us have seen the bs over the last decades though and did not have kids and may be willing to fight just to hold our heads up. Some kids to will see the bs and take a stance. Thing is it does not go right to violent revolution. Some of us will bartley the scrivner it up and it will wratchet in multiple ways.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    I mean... what was the last significant action you took against the administration? Like, something you had to go out of your way to do, that cost you some amount of time, money, effort, or risk? How many other people were helping you?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I protest regularly and irregularly. It takes time and other people is kind of variable. During the last election I worked to get a person on the ballot. Helping is just something you do. Sometimes people have more complex things and need some help with setup or managment of it. I like to keep a pretty managable thing for myself that fits who I am but I will stow it to help someones more significant thing take shape. I have been involved in some planning and making of things.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Yep it's the classic "first they came for" dilemma. Your dad is probably a straight white guy with a decent job cruising to retirement. That's great for him and his family. No need to do anything to push back on the trends now while it's easy because it's not affecting him.

    It's definitely been awful for a whole lot of people though. Immigrants and brown Americans are getting ICE'd (the detention centers are worse than most people want to know 🙈). Trans people are being harassed and pushed out of society, they can't even renew their passport without having their gender forcibly changed or feel safe going to the bathroom.

    There are real things that folks like him could do to show the GOP that they need to pull back, but the truth is they are going to wait until they come for them, once it is too late.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Your dad is probably a straight white guy with a decent job cruising to retirement.

    If this were the actual cause, then where are all the gay Mexicans rioting in the streets. There should be, at minimum, millions, if protesting and rioting were popular ideas.

    Null hypothesis: until their lives are significantly impacted, most people will ignore the administration and wait for it to blow over. Not because they are scared, but because they are busy and have lives that they care about living.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I have a number of coworkers that are immigrants, black, etc. It’s still been hard to get them intricately engaged in the subject of politics, and they’ve still trusted immigration/customs when traveling internationally.

    To a lot of people in more stable communes of the USA, it’s not life/death. But I will grant, “invasions” like Minneapolis, or the abduction of Rumeysa Ozturk, do pull people into that fight.

    (I will admit to being that second one. I only saw it as racism, until I read more into the oppression of Gaza. It was a subject I had been relatively ignorant on, or had a “both sides” attitude on until then)

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    There are street clashes happening in various cities periodically now. It's just not full on storming the Bastille levels. Yet. The AI bubble is hanging over us, ready to implode any day now and the Iran war is gonna make that worse, nevermind any other unknown factors that might happen

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Your dad could be wrong. There is a turning point where a snowball effect will start where when the bottom part of the economy can't make it to the end of the month, the rest of the country will feel the consequences.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    Sadly you are probably right. The only decent ones speaking up are AOC and Bernie, and they have been yelling into the void for many years now.

    But the large majority has nothing to hide, is white and is not affected until it's too late. First they come for the....

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Didn't Bernie come close-ish to winning the Democratic national primary for president and push a great number more people to identify as socialist, to the point where Mamdani openly ran as a socialist and became mayor of NYC?

    Also, iirc, the US is no longer majority white. And Trump had sizeable latino support in the last election. I think that people just don't categorize themselves into identity groups as much as some would like to believe, and simply have a default state of hoping that bad times will blow over

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago*

    You are right, no matter the colour of your skin or the minority group you belong to, most people prefer kicking down.

    Let's not tax billionaires, I'll be one next week. Humans are terrible at self awareness and we have been stripped of solidarity by algorithms on top of that.

    On small scales (towns, communities) solidarity works. That's why we should work on reconnecting. Meet your neighbours, join a club. Maybe this is what also helped Mamdani? I sure hope the US will figure this out, Bernie is too old now but AOC would make a wonderful leader.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    The funny thing is how you pretend that it wouldn't be the same fucking thing in any other country. I don't recall seeing this line of garbage about Hungarians "allowing" Orban to control the country for 16 years.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    The article is about the US.

    But since you mention him, Orbán was plenty bad, afaik he acted largely within the law. Like the gerrymandering in the US that disenfranchises minority voters. And as I said, Trump acts outside the law in addition to all the fucked up stuff they're doing by the book.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    hes saying that people were not suggesting hungarians allowing orban to do things. Honestly Im pretty sure I did see things blamine hungarians for the state hungry with voting and such though. So not sure I agree on him. Still I get that many people are nasty despite the many americans tha actually are fighting in the ways they can.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    There was plenty critique for Orbán here, I really cannot stand the whataboutism this comment shows.

    We have our problems in Europe as well that we need to takle quickly and decisively. If Trump gets away with shit there is someone else in the world taking note, it's a preview of what may come for us soon.

    My original comment is in part frustration but also a genuine question. People being driven into existential crises just sucking it up and taking on a 4th job? I would have beheaded Ronald McDonald long before.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    If it makes you feel better I am unemployed and protesting. I will keep protesting even if I get a job (technically I substitute teach). Im more take a bullet than leave a bullet though. So we either get through it like south korea and hungary or I eventually fall one way or another. But yeah I don't get people able to live day to day business as usual.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    How I feel is irrelevant, but thank you for protesting. Getting out there regularly is important and may encourage others to join you.

    I believe we will all get through this, the question is how much unjust suffering and death needs to happen first.

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