A preinstalled AI on the most popular web browser that most people wont even know is there sounds like a nearly perfect recipe for a cybersecurity and/or misinformation nightmare.
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Hadn't used it or upgraded it in a year. I deleted chrome from my Linux box. It felt. Pretty good actually.
Another reason I'm glad I degoogled my phone.
Per-device cost of one Nano push
- Bandwidth: 4 GB
- Energy: 4 × 0.06 = 0.24 kWh per device per push
- CO2: 0.24 × 0.25 = 0.06 kg CO2e per device per push
Yeah, Google pushing updates you don't want is annoying.
Trying to pretend like 4GB of data is some environmental catastrophe is just hyperbole. You use more than that streaming a movie, or watching Tiktok or autoplaying videos on Reddit or updating any video game or regular web browsing.
that’s right, Windows users won’t even notice it as the OS already takes 97% of memory when idle
You already shouldn't be using Chrome, and if this is what moves the needle, great.
At a billion-device scale the climate costs are insane.
No.
Just flatly, no.
Local models spin your GPU like a video game. Unless you think Overwatch is a climate disaster, please learn to separate datacenter condemnation from people running their own computers a little harder.
Agreed. Hate the data centers and corporate obsession with extreme waste for total value capture. Not the tech, especially on a local scale.
A 128GB amd strix halo runs at 120W and can host large LLMs at home. If you ran it full time for inference it would still be under $20/mo in electricity costs.
I'd say you should read the article a little more closely, but it's not written very well. But it brings up interesting things that have nothing to do with your local GPU usage. For example, it names an interesting point about simply delivering 4 gigabytes of data to that many people. If pushed out to ~15% of Chrome users without consent:
- That'd be 500 million people
- It would be 2 exabytes of data
- 120 GWh of energy, equivalent to the annual electricity consumption of about 36,000 average UK households
- 30,000 tonnes CO2 emitted, roughly the annual emissions of 6,500 cars
And that's just for the initial data push. Models need ✨updates!✨
I hate the idea of AI agents on my phone without my consent. So this is definitely fucked up. And fuck google in general.
But the power consumption argument makes little sense. That's like downloading one movie in 1080p.
We must kill the environmental disaster that is Steam.
Youtube is history's greatest monster.
Installing a game you want is different than hundreds of millions of people having something they didn't ask for getting pushed on them.
Not in terms of power use.
Power use is not always bad. Power waste is. 4GB I'm not going to use is much worse than 6GB I will use.
What happened to separating personal use from condemning data centers for expending unnecessary and unwanted energy?
Does consent change how much power a server uses?
Here, yes. Two exabytes of data transfer could have been one or zero.
I don't get the point you're trying to make here.
The point is that servers don't belch black smoke when they send you one file. This model is the size of a four-hour Youtube video. How many people watch how many hours of video, every single day? We only see this hand-wringing minutia over internet use when talking about neural networks, and it's getting weird.
Much weirder when people try to shift blame off corporations pushing stuff on people without their consent, and on people minding their own business.
Weren't you just telling me that data centers would use energy regardless anyway? I can't keep track of these talking points, except it seems like they're all pro AI.
The root comment opens with 'don't use Chrome.' This tangent is about specific overblown fixation on power use... for downloads.
I am telling you to apply your own criticism of bandwidth to anything else Google does. Four gigs to every desktop Chrome user is still a drop in the bucket compared to a streaming service. If the average Chrome user has watched two movies online, they've done just as much environmental damage. Which is to say: not much.
Install Chrome, get Chrome, including the AI parts. If you don't like it, don't use Chrome.
You see how Google is going insane and stupid? Idk wtf is driving big companies that way, are they brain-washed or sth? wtf is going on in this world?
The climate costs aren't "insane". One billion devices receiving the push (probably an overestimate) represents about 0.02% of global internet traffic.
The guy kind of proves this in his own post. The annual emissions of 13 000 cars (which is what this would equate to on 1 billion devices) is fuck all on a global level. One city pushing for bike-friendly infrastructure will have 10x that effect.
This is not to say this isn't kind of a stupid update, but the only thing insane about the climate costs is how insanely contrived bringing them up here is.
The real meat in the article is the total abuse of every machine installed to. Illegal abuse. No consent. Hiding the evidence, reinstalling if it gets removed. And he barely touches the other concern, how once there AI will be used for anything you do on Chrome. The download impact is the least of the crimes here, but no one seemed to read the rest of the article.
That's ridiculous. How is it "illegal abuse" for an application to install new features on your computer? If you don't like the feature then uninstall the application. This is how it works for all software.
It's a local model so it doesn't even have the privacy concerns a cloud model would have. Not that that really matters because Chrome is a privacy concern in and of itself already.
I mean, you could read about it. It's all in the linked article, no reason for me to repeat it all.
I did read the article. You clearly read more into it than I did, so perhaps you should explain what your interpretation of it was.
Like I said, the argument presented in the article is ridiculous. Obviously the law does not forbid applications from installing new features in updates. I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult.
Well, you read it, so you read the Directive as well, which is specific about what is and isn't okay. I guess you're fine with Google and whomever else just using your computer for whatever purpose they need. The law is written to keep such activity narrow and for the application's intended purpose, period. Now perhaps the EULA (that no one reads) is written to allow a lot of flex, and that's where they think they can keep it legal.
It reinstalls itself if you try to remove it normally. It's named so as to not be easy to find (especially since there wasn't any prompt letting you know it was being installed, or asking permission). It is more than a local AI, it's connecting outside and being used beyond a controlled action.
As an adult (since we had to go there and not just discuss it like adults), that all sounds not very trustworthy or legal to me. And while I don't use Chrome because of its other problems, a lot of people do, people that aren't going to be the wiser because of this "normal" update.
Yeah, and like I said, claiming that the directive forbids software from installing its features on your computer is patently ridiculous. The directive is trying to forbid tracking cookies and doesn't cover anything the user explicitly requests to install. When the user installs Google Chrome, they're explicitly installing Google Chrome and its features, including the AI features, and so the directive does not apply. If the user doesn't like what the software does, they can choose to uninstall it.
This interpretation of the directive would also make all automatic updates illegal, be it Chrome extensions, Chrome itself, Windows Update, Steam's game updates, etc. Which, you know, is obviously not the case. So I must belabour the point: the argument is absolutely ridiculous.
downloading? the clear issue is running a billion mini geminis nobody asked for
The energy spent running it is going to be even more negligible than the bandwidth.
Everyone is freaking out about energy use of AI data centers, not the energy use of ISPs. It's the energy used to run AI that's the issue.
It's a local model. It uses a fraction of the power a cloud AI query uses, and cloud AI queries already use much less power than you obviously think they do (it is AI training -- specifically training frontier models -- that burns power like crazy).
Whether cloud or local, it takes CPU/GPU use. That's what takes power. It's not magically less because it's on a personal PC rather than a data center.
Like the other guy said, it is magically more efficient because it's magically significantly smaller. This model is likely a few billion parameters and frontier models are in the 1 - 3+ trillion parameter range.
Yeah, people's mobile phones that run this model might die slightly faster, but playing a mobile game or doing any type of hardware intense process will kill your battery faster. It's no different.
Yes it is. Small models like this are on the order of 100x more efficient than the big models backing ChatGPT or Gemini proper.
Press X to doubt.
But in any case allow me to amend my statement:
Whether cloud or local, it takes CPU/GPU use. It's not magically less free because it's on a personal PC rather than a data center.
That's still what takes power. This is AI use that's not needed. And multiply by hundreds of millions of devices, it's a shit ton of energy.
And multiply by hundreds of millions of devices, it's a shit ton of energy.
No it's not. You clearly have zero perspective on energy consumption.
The power draw on a phone with an NPU (where Gemini Nano is mostly used) is comparable to watching a video on your phone, maybe a couple of watts. On devices without NPUs (e.g. PCs) it will be more, but not dramatically so. The power use of this is absolutely zilch in the grand scheme of things.
To be extremely generous, let's say the average power draw is 50 watts, and that the model generates on average 10 tok/s, and that the average user has it generate 500 tokens per day (about 400 words). That's 50 seconds of 50 watts for every user, and let's say this is done by a billion users. This is a very generous estimate: in reality the average power draw is lower, the average tokens generated is likely lower (the intended use is generating short snippets like, say, email titles based on the email's content), and this definitely won't be used by a billion people.
WolframAlpha tells us that this takes 694 MWh of power, and helpfully mentions that this is 74% the fuel energy of an Airbus A330-300, and indeed this energy use is roughly in the ballpark of one transatlantic flight. There's about 500 transatlantic flights every day. Two offshore wind turbines will generate this much power on a windy day.
In all likelihood an order of magnitude more energy is spent every day watching short form videos. I'm not going to do the napkin math on that though.
edit: in reality, local models like this will likely reduce net power consumption as fewer API calls are made to cloud LLMs, which are both less power efficient and have overhead from the whole internet thing.
Do the math please. Go on, I'll wait. I want you to see your own process any why you're wrong.
If it is not immediately obvious to you how negligible the cost is going to be, you have no clue how little compute small models like this require. Apply a bit of common sense: this is a model designed to run locally on smartphones. If it used a lot of power, the phone would run out of battery.
It's hard (if not impossible) to find power usage figures for Gemini Nano, because they're going to depend on the efficiency of the device it's running on. If it's on a phone (where most Chrome installs are), that phone likely has an NPU, in which case the power draw will be negligible. If it has to run on the CPU, it'll be more.
So let's instead assume every user will be using a model comparable to ChatGPT, for which we do have reasonable estimates. According to this estimate, 500 output tokens would use about 0.3 Wh of energy. 500 output tokens is about 400 words, which is probably more than the average user will be using Gemini Nano for (it is intended for small tasks), but let's assume that as the average daily use. 1 billion users times 0.3 Wh is 300 MWh. Fuck all on a global scale, about 0.0015% of the world's energy production (20 TWh per day).
Keep in mind that figure is for the full ChatGPT, which runs on 1500-watt GPUs. Gemini Nano runs on chips that draw more like 1.5 W, and on devices that physically cannot draw more than 15 W. It's thus reasonable to estimate that it is on the order of 100x more efficient.
Their estimate of energy uses was only based on FLOPs, but I'd assume for real world energy usage the KV cache would be very impactful if not eventually dominant. It's probably also a bit unfair of them to ignore the Internet traffic and likely all the extra network traffic behind the load balancer.
Not a fan of their analysis, but I wonder if it's potentially close to accurate to this deployment? I can't imagine they're having large contexts and ballooning caches on a model meant for a phone.
but I'd assume for real world energy usage the KV cache would be very impactful if not eventually dominant.
They talk about this in the appendix where they go over the (estimated) effects of large amounts of input tokens (up to 100k). This isn't really relevant for Gemini Nano because it only has a max 32k context window, and the deployment in Chrome probably caps it at far less than that.
I'm inclined to believe the main analysis is reasonably accurate. The numbers are similar to what I get on my local machine with local models. Granted, I tested with smaller models (7b parameter Mistral in this case) on weaker hardware (AMD 6700XT), but on a quick test I get about 50 tok/s locally at 180 W power use, which is about 0.5 Wh for 500 tokens. AMD GPUs suck for AI, so I think it's plausible that dedicated compute hardware would get basically the same energy efficiency on a frontier model.
Gemini Nano on a phone NPU is obviously going to be far more efficient -- by all accounts it gets the same or better tok/s I am getting at like 1/50th the TDP.
The real issue is waste of backup medium space IMO.
Here's the link from that article that explains how to disable and remove it, since the text of the article doesn't include it.
https://pureinfotech.com/stop-chrome-gemini-nano-download-windows-11/
The linked page accesses at least 10 other sites for scripts, and is more than 2 MB big. It could have been a 458 byte page:
Remove and prevent 4 GB Gemini nano install into Chrome, on Windows 11:
- Backup registry
- Start
- regedit
- HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies
- right-click Policies, New, Key
- confirm Google, Enter
- right-click Google, New, Key
- confirm Chrome, Enter
- right-click Chrome, New, DWORD (32-bit) Value
- confirm GenAILocalFoundationalModelSettings, Enter
- right-click newly created key, Modify
- set value to 1
- OK
- Restart computer.
I am pretty sure that the main way how how to remove it is to uninstall chrome, but i also think that if you cared, you wouldn't be using chrome in the first place
Unnecessarily long article (which says "4GB" 33 times, and the complete phrase "4GB AI model" ten times)... Once or twice was all I needed.
But the article author(s) came across a good point. If pushed out to ~15% of Chrome users without consent:
- That'd be 500 million people
- It would be 2 exabytes of data
- 120 GWh of energy, equivalent to the annual electricity consumption of about 36,000 average UK households
- 30,000 tonnes CO2 emitted, roughly the annual emissions of 6,500 cars
And that's just for the initial data push. Models need ✨updates!✨
The download is the title and what everyone is latching onto, but few are seeing the other problems, like how it secretly installed that model without user acceptance, how it uses obscurity to hide the model, how it will reinstall if you just delete it (fortunately there's an uninstall process linked in the comments, does that include uninstalling Chrome?). And then how it pretends to be an extra AI thing on the browser but apparently will be used for any searching. Which is more energy use since it isn't local, it's just using the weights in storage.
It's all bad, even if it wasn't AI. It's what malware does.
I don't buy this energy figure at all - where are you getting it from?
120 GWh / 500 million is 240 Wh per person.
The download is 4GB. Downloaded over a 100 megabit connection, it takes about 5 minutes.
240 Wh / 5 minutes is 2.88 kW.
What equipment is consuming an extra 2.88 kW due to me downloading something?
This sounds like one of those pants-on-head "calculations" about how sending an email consumes five billion gigajoules or whatever. They typically add up the energy usage of a data centre and divide by the number of emails going through it. Is that what's happening here?
Yup it's exactly as the headline says once you read the article. No clickbait. Also is a thorough and readable post, long but easy to understand even for someone who isn't very tech savvy such as myself.
I guess I have to figure out how to uninstall that now
Beyond the disk size, what's wrong with this? Isn't local machine learning better than shipping your data off to some cloud provider? Or is the problem machine learning?
Isn’t local machine learning better than shipping your data off to some cloud provider?
They're absolutely shipping all your local data up to their cloud.
If you read the article it will summarize very succinctly everything wrong with it. It is illegal for a variety of reasons in some places (Europe, California) it's wasteful, it means 4 fucking GB of data unrequested which can be a problem in metered connections in many places. 4GB. This model is not essential for chrome to function as a browser at all, and in all likelihood unless you use it for generating text then you probably are not even using it.
Per Passerby6497's comment above:
The AI Mode pill in the Chrome 147 omnibox is a cloud-backed Search Generative Experience surface - every query the user types into it is sent over the network to Google's servers for processing by Google's hosted models. The on-device Nano model is not invoked by the AI Mode UI flow at all. They are entirely separate code paths - the most visible AI affordance in the browser does not use the local model the user has been silently given, and the features that do use the local model (Help-Me-Write in , tab-group AI suggestions, smart paste, page summary) are buried in textarea-context menus and tab-group right-click menus that the average user will discover, on average, never.
What a double kick to the dick. First, they silently download 4gb to your disk, and they still fucking send your shit to their cloud AI.
The problem, mostly, is that it is installed without informing the user or asking for content and it reinstalls even if you delete it, which is what a malware does. I may not want a local AI work on my laptop on battery while I am working and browsing the internet.
To me this seems arbitrary—Chrome contains countless other binary blobs which you have no insight to and cannot consent to. They are part of the application. Chrome contains other machine learning algorithms and features and has for years, but these have been baked-in. You have likely been using "local AI" or machine learning on your laptop battery for quite some time without being explicitly aware of it.
If people don't like these features that's fine, there are lots of alternatives to choose from (personally, I use Helium). But to be upset about this specific instance seems arbitrary to me. And to claim that it's somehow nefarious (i.e. the consent part) seems disingenuous. Consent is granted when the user downloads and begins using Chrome—why would Chrome need additional consent to download/update one of many external components?
Again, I don't use Chrome and I'm not interested in this feature, I just don't see how it's necessarily bad or evil all things considered.
You have likely been using "local AI" or machine learning on your laptop battery for quite some time without being explicitly aware of it.
But to be upset about this specific instance seems arbitrary to me.
I am upset because I am aware of this one. How can I be upset about something I am not even aware of?
why would Chrome need additional consent to download/update one of many external components?
The user should be informed about what they are getting. By that logic Chrome csn also install and run a crypto miner.
These Big Tech are really getting comfortable with downloading malware now. Sign of desperation or Hubris?
That's pretty nice detective work.
Now the lawyers can begin. If Google downloads a ton of stuff for users, some of them with limited disk space, some with metered data connectivity, Google is making their lives worse. If they automatically make the life of (for example) 100 million people worse, they should be fined for such behaviour. If this behaviour is occurring in Europe, then I predict that under the EU Digital Services Act, they will be fined eventually.
This would be for users of Chrome web browsers only? Not just using Google search on DDG? How about through steam overlay?
Wait until they do a study on gaming's contribution to climate change...
If you play video games 3 hours per day every day from the moment you are born to the moment you die and every joule of it comes from fossil fuels, you still produce fewer emissions than a single private jet flying one time from New York to London.
0.5 kW x 3 hours/day x 365.24 days/year x 80 years = 44 MWh in a lifetime of gaming 3 hours per day.
300 gallons/hour x 7 hours x 47.4 kWh/gallon = 100 MWh from a single flight.
Also, a person running on a powered treadmill produces more emissions than a person playing video games on a computer:
0.7 kW treadmill + 0.5 kW person engaging in exercise = 1.2 kW power consumption on a treadmill.
0.5 kW gaming PC + 0.2 kW person sitting = 0.7 kW power consumption.
Multiply it by a few million.
Did you notice in the first sentence where I said "and every joule of it comes from fossil fuels"? Yeah, slap a solar panel on your roof and game at noon or use a battery, and you're producing fewer emissions than someone who does light exercise.
There are still the manufacturing and recycling costs, whether the gaming hardware or all the extra agriculture that needs to get done to grow the calories you're burning by going on a jog. But like how agriculture can be made into permaculture, computer hardware could be built to last much longer if we decide to settle on the current level of processing power. If fossils can keep their detailed structure for hundreds of millions of years, I wonder how long a computer could be made to last.
All in all, solar-powered vegan gamers produce fewer emissions than most mammals their size. If you say there is no place for gamers in the ecosystem, there is no place for humans or elephants or bison or wildebeest or buffalo or rhinos or pigs or tigers or cattle or moose.
oh you silly plebs, you still think you "own" that device?
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