I’m on oral minox, finn, and estrogen. My hair regrowth is ridiculous.
post
I remember when I was about 8 I asked my dad (who had the typical cul de sac bald on top thing going, and was a general practitioner) why he didn't use any of the hair growth pills. He told me that he would "rather have a dick that worked and no hair, than a full head of hair and a limp dick".
I still kinda wish he just told me "there are side effects", I was fucking 8.
My limited research into these is that you pretty much have to keep taking them. I considerd it, mostly because of sun and skin cancer risks, but not if I have to take a drug for the rest of my life. I have hats, they work fine.
There have been reports of water forming around the heart due to oral minoxidil. It needs to be tested that the oral extended release version is safe. The problem is only a small percentage might have this potentially lethal side effect, so it needs to be tested very throughly
Minoxidil is also a super potent blood pressure medicine. I don't have the numbers obviously, but this is already widely available at compounding pharmacies so I imagine there are probably thousands of people already using it.
It has a black box warning about potentially fatal side effects. Everyone using it is using it off label for regrowing hair and trying to micro dose it. There are plenty of safer blood pressure medications. The hope is that by using extended release the blood concentration never peaks.
I look forward to hearing how this will fuck you up 20 years down the road. Just bite the bullet, grow a pair, and let that hair go. You'll thank yourself down the road. Note, that I'm referring to men specifically.
Seriously. My hairline receded when I was 17. Accepting what is is a much better way to live your life. Especially if you're white and you just don't want to go bald cause "then you'll be old". Everyone gets old. Accepting the balding sooner makes it harder to tell what your age is going forward. Like Patrick Stewart.
Not only that, but maintenance is cheap, easy, and quick. No more waiting around for a haircut, having to go to the barber, or tipping. A razor costs like $0.05 and it takes like 5 minutes to shave. You don't have to fret about expensive meds or haircare products. It's really the best. I know how hard and imasculating hair loss can be for a man, but once you clear that hurdle it's smooth sailing. Plus some women really like the bald look.
People always say this but, even putting aesthetics aside, I'd choose a full head of hair any day.
You talk about the speed of shaving but don't say you have to do it every day or it looks like shiiiit. I used to go 2-3 months between haircuts and they cost $20+tip
No matter how you slice the pie it's still way cheaper and easier to shave every other day than it is to deal with a barber. Sure if I didn't lose my hair I'd want it, but I'm not going to fight genetics and nature. Vanity is pathetic and way more cringe than embracing the inevitable.
It's definitely cheaper but it being easier is debatable. It takes wayyyy more effort to shave 90 times than to make a stop after work to sit for 20 minutes.
And I made it pretty clear I wasn't talking about vanity. I just don't love having to put a sharp blade to my head first thing every morning for it to not look like a crackhead.
I don't get why being white matters here.
In black communities, hair care is community building. By going bald, you lose or limit access to the community created in the barber's chair. White people don't have this, so losing your hair is just about vanity, not a loss or reduction of identity.
I don't know. I have a great relationship with my barber. I don't think that our relationship is less meaningful just because the color of our skin.
I also do not believe that people in general, no matter the color of their skin, go only to barbers of their same skin color. Not all the world live in 1960s USA. Pretty sure plenty of white folks go to black barbers, and plenty of back folks go to white barbers.
Pretty sure plenty of white folks go to black barbers, and plenty of back folks go to white barbers.
Yeah, and that shows your level of ignorance here. Cosmetology and barber schools don't teach about black hair types and difficulties. White is default in these places and black hair care is considered a "specialty" skill. A black person can't just walk into any barbershop. Well, they could but it's unlikely anyone knows how to help them.
I have to be done here, but this is definitely a blind spot for you. Maybe look into it?
"No true Scot" found in the urban centres.
Lots to unpack here.
You still do not explain why white people's relationships with their barbers are less meaningful just because the color of their skin.
Also I don't get why a person with white skin could not go to a barber who has black skin, which would know how to cut white hair because as you said it's the default, and build a great friendship and community there.
Where I live most white people go to PoC barbershops because most barbershops are own by PoC overall.
Black people and white people are allowed to be friends and to go to each others business now.
Brother. As a white person, if you need a haircut you can go to any salon. Your hair isn't under constant scrutiny. Your default hairstyle isn't treated as something dirty or wrong. You don't experience othering or ostracization because of your hair.
You, as an individual, can choose to have your hair be a connection to community. That can be a beautiful thing and losing that might be devastating to you, as an individual. A black person is thrust into community because of their hair because of systemic oppression. It's a struggle that brings everyone in that community together. You can't separate one from the other. Every black man who loses his hair loses this integral connection he has to his community.
White people's connection to community through their hair is a choice, black people's connection to community through their hair is a survival tactic. That's why they're fundamentally different. You can choose, they have no choice but to do so.
Sorry, I simply not buy that.
We are not going to agree on this. So have a great day. It has been nice to read your point of view on the matter, and there are some things that I haven't considered before. Still do not personally agree but that's ok.
Assuming you understand others' personal and cultural experiences, especially when you aren't a member of that culture, and especially when you have more than one person saying you don't understand that culture, is a bad move. You don't have to "agree" or "disagree.". Sometimes you can just listen politely.
Precisely why my argument has not been to invalidate black people's culture. But to criticize when someone tried to invalidated white people's culture, importance of their hair or relationships with their barbers.
You could also apply the listen and not argue here when I say that hair and hair saloons are important for other ethnicities other that Black American.
I can also tell you my personal experiences and culture. In fact it's what I've mostly say. Never said that black people doesn't have great relationships and community bonding in barbershops owned supposedly by other black people. I've been saying that white (and other ethnicities) also have that, and it's as important for them, because, you know, every human is important regardless of their skin color.
People aren't arguing about white peoples and others not having community in the barbershop, but that there's a layer of risk due to hair type combined with prejudice that puts black hair salons and barbershops at a higher level of necessity. Even in Canada, or maybe especially in Canada, this is obvious.
Cool. Have fun with your intentional ignorance. Your whiteness will undoubtedly shield you from any contradictory evidence if you don't actively fight against it. Cheers, mate!
Are you being racist against me?
I think you are both assuming my race as white and them being pejorative against white people.
That last message was not cool.
Brother. Comrade. Friend. I assumed you're white because you think that racism is a thing in the past. That it's an icky, immoral thing for history textbooks and not something that anyone deals with today. I assume you're white because you defend white people in a scenario where they're privileged and that privilege shields them from the reality that others face. I assume you're white because when I give an example of what this experience is like for a non-white community member, you immediately center whiteness in your rebuke. You assume that speaking of the white experience as what it is is somehow racism.
Whiteness isn't some failing of race, it's a systemic knowledge gap where white people assume themselves the default race and they think they can easily project their experiences onto other communities. They don't know the struggles of other communities because they aren't forced to confront how racism impacts their experience. White privilege isn't something that gives them a leg up, it just means they don't have to grapple with racism in their day-to-day lives.
I do not think racism is a think of the past. I do not believe I've ever said that. I don't even identify as white. My DNA has more in common with North Africa than with the Anglo-Saxon groups that created the concept of "being white", so you should check your prejudices.
Racism is really prevalent today against PoC. I've anyone understood anything else from my messages I apologise for not delivering my wording right.
That being said. "White" people is privileged in many areas. Going bald and suffering from balding is not one of them. And invalidating that feeling, saying that a white person going bald should not complain or suffer about it JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE. Rubs me the wrong way. Millions of white people suffer a lot because they are going bald, trying to invalidate that feeling just because they are white is just wrong.
It's incredibly funny you say I believe "white is the default race" when you directly attacked white people, and your only defence for that offence was that was hair saloons are important for black people. Completely ignoring the thousands of different ethnicities that are neither black neither white. What about a balding Asian? can they complain if they go bald? A balding latin american? Which degree of anglo-saxon DNA has a person have to have in their blood to be able to complain about going bald?
The root of this is that a person say that "white people cannot complain about going bald because they are white" and has yet not retracted that incredibly racist statement.
You don't know what's going on in the life of that balding white person, and you CANNOT DEDUCE IT FROM THEIR RACE. You don't know if they are for instance a trans woman and suffering an incredible gender disforia because the balding. You don't know what importance have their hair in their lives. And trying to invalidate those feelings based only on their skin color is a bad thing to do.
I don't even identify as white. My DNA has more in common with North Africa than with the Anglo-Saxon groups that created the concept of "being white", so you should check your prejudices
Sorry, can't let this go. This is the whitest fucking shit I've ever heard. Bro, non-white people don't fucking choose how to identify. They are identified and have to deal with how they're identified. The fact that you think you can choose to not identify with whiteness screams of the fact that you're absolutely steeped in it.
Especially if you're white and you just don't want to go bald cause "then you'll be old".
My direct quote, it's interesting that that doesn't say what you said it does. I'm not saying this isn't a struggle for white people, silly. I'm saying that they have less to grapple with losing. Even if they have the same level of connection to community through their hair, losing that won't other them from an intrinsic part of their identity. That is a lesser loss, which was my point and the reason why I emphasized that.
Completely ignoring the thousands of different ethnicities
I'm not ignoring shit, dude. You asked what being white had to do with it, I gave a counter-example of someone who isn't white losing something deeper than a white person could face in the same situation. I don't need to explain that hair is a big part of many identities to demonstrate my point or cover every possible group that it could possibly apply to, just that it isn't the same for white people.
And that's where I fundamentally disagree. And what I do think we could not agree.
You said that black people (and supposedly all other ethnicities but white for some "absolutely-non-racist" reason), have something defined by their race that makes them lose something when they lose their hair that white people doesn't have.
You said that black people lose a sense of community when they go bald because hair saloons are more important to them because of their race. I do not agree with this, as I know that hair saloons have not that "black community" meaning to all black people, and that many white people have that "community" feeling for their hair saloons. Bonding with other human beings in a hair saloon is not a race specific condition. And pointing out that while you outed white people for some "not-racist" reason you where unable to find more examples of not white people that lose something fundamentally related to their race that white people do not lose when they go bald.
Going even further I would say that you are not even doing a favour to black people here. As I'm pretty sure that plenty of balding black people are suffering not because they "loose their saloon community", they suffer because they like their hair, they like how they look with hair, they believe that hair makes them look younger and more attractive, and they don't stop being black for feeling this way or because they don't have a "black saloon community". As these feelings are not race-lock. A black person, an asian person, a white person, a latin-american person... feeling like shit for aesthetic reasons because you are loosing your hair it's one pretty common suffering among most races and cultures I know.
You also while accusing me to "white defaultism" are doing a very strong USA defaultism. Ignoring that the majority of black people of the word does indeed not live in the USA, and does not have those US related experiences. You can be in a country with 99,9% black people, with not weird shenanigans about racism and barbershops. And they still most of the time don't like when they go bald, why? because it makes them look old, same as an "privileged" white dude.
On an even more profound note about racism. Trying to equate "community" things to "race" things... not good in my opinion. On this example, the moment you say that something fundamental about being black is a "community formed in the hair saloon" how do you think that makes feel black people who doesn't have such "saloon community"? Black people that go to a white barber, that do not bond in the barber for whatever reason, or maybe they cut their own hair because they are broke af? Are they not black? Are they less valid? There are common black experiences, of course, most of them related to a blatant racism against them. I just don't think that "hair saloons" and thing related with hair are one of those experiences.
Sure white people can go to any barber and be sure they have been trained in straight hair but that is not the point. White people with extremely curly or frizzy hair are also poorly served by society.
So people of African descent have a skill gap to contend with, on top of prejudice to negotiate, and hair becomes a political thing where community needs to close ranks.
Why is it a more meaningful relationship than for non-blacks? Tradition on top of comfort and security, and a layer of "insider knowledge."
Getting huffy about it is pretty cringy, though, and I wish you were more open to learning.
It's harder for us girls. I've got a hat with a wig sewn in so I have that going for me which is nice.
No need to wait that long. Hair loss drugs fuck with your androgens and can cause depression
What if I'm already bald and struggle with depression?
fuck with your androgens and cause depression
chases daily fin pill with the double daily 2.5mg of sublingual estradoil
Andro-who-now?
Seriously though, some of us are glad to see em go lol.
Fair but that is a small minority of people
Minodixil has already shown dangerous side effects, or so I read somewhere (but IIRC it was a reputable source, I just don't have a link to prove it, sorry).
No, I like my hair.
There are some people that look good bald. I am not one of them.
I'm gonna be so fucking hairy.
Seriously, though, pro-tip, I got my last 3-month batch of the regular Minoxidil at Ollie's in the US for $8. YMMV. But $8 is a steal.
that is basically a low dose hypertension drug lol and also coincidentally exactly how minoxicidil spray was discovered when they realized some hypertension drugs resulted in hair growth. seems like it reached a full circle.
Lot of misinformation in this thread. Every drug has side effects but that doesn't mean everyone or even a majority of people will experience them.
Minoxidil was originally designed as a blood pressure med and was found to support hair growth. Kind of like Viagra was designed for pulmonary hypertension and it was later found that it supported erections.
The doses of minoxidil given to support the anagen or thicker phase of hair growth {2.5 to 5 mg) are much lower than those given for blood pressure (10 to 20 mg). The higher doses are more commonly associated with side effects like lightheadedness, palpitations, lower extremity edema and pericardial effusion.
Detasteride or Finasteride decrease the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Scalp DHT accelerates follicle minituarization. This medication has a long half life so if youve taken it for weeks it stays in your system for weeks even after youve stopped it. There are people that have reported longer standing mood changes due to this drug.
I know many who tolerate both just fine but everyone should assess their own risk tolerance and make a decision based on that. The topical formulations help but the oral combination is much more effective and for those that pursue a hair transplant these meds will always be started afterwards (often beforehand as well) because otherwise your DHT will just wipe out the transplanted follicles.
We've got wars and bad economy everywhere in what is quickly becoming a full on dystopia but we have a pill that can give you your boner back and now another pill that will give you your hair back. You can then pretend you are an "alpha" again and do more wars and cheat the masses out of more money. Pharmacy is a miracle! /s
What a silly thing to say. No need to shame men for taking these pills. I for one love that there are hair regrowth pills since its gonna help a lot with my mtf transition. Should they stop development into these pills just because there are some dicks in the whitehouse?
yeah. I mean im a hair guy. Love my hair. I wear my locks long. All the same if this thing had any side effects that make my health worse or if its not a disposable income level of cost (which nothing is currently). Its a no. Its not that worth it for a vague vanity. Then again I know folk that color their gray and I don't go for that.
I heard that minoxidil doesn't actually grow hair.
Minoxidil: Increases blood flow by dilating blood vessels. More blood flow means more resources for hair in the region that the minoxidil is acting in. More resources = hair grows thicker. CANNOT grow hair for follicles that are dead. Effects go away when you stop taking it.
Finestaride (probably the one you're talking about): blocks DHT that causes male pattern baldness. Prevents hair loss caused by DHT (for most people). Effects last only while you take it.
Hence, people generally combine these things. Finestaride to stop mpb/lessen its pace, while minoxidil to make fine hairs at the hairline grow thicker.
Minoxidil extends the Anagen (growth) phase of the hair cycle and increases the size of miniaturized follicles. While it doesn't create brand-new follicles, it transforms thin, resting hairs into thicker, more pigmented ones, improving the density and appearance of the hair you already have.
Yep, take a pill that goes in your stomach, absorbed through the intestines, into your blood stream, liver, etc, to grow hair on your head.
Bullshit.
Tell us more about how you don't understand how medication works?
There is good reason to limit off-target drug delivery, to minimize side effects in tissues that don't need exposure to the drug.
- Is the oral route more effective than topical?
- What are the systemic effects of the oral med?
- Was the study quoted in the article in any way funded by a pharmaceutical company that would be granted an exclusive license for a "new formulation," or is it trustworthy?
We actually do not know how medication works.
You'd be baffled knowing how we research new medications (it's randomly trying millions of different molecules).
One breakthrough where we know more is MRNA but that's just a small part.
And metabolism? We have a poor understanding of about 10-15%(we don't even know where it all happens or how much there is), the rest is unknown.
Do you? We have no idea how much of the medication works. We know it works in some parts better than others through observations and assumptions.
If we actually knew medicine, we tackle pain, injuries and other ailments through localised medical intervention, not taking a pill and hoping for the best.
Dude, you're literally describing pharmacology.
Localized effects have always been the goal, but actually making a drug that gets only to its intended destination, does a very specific thing, and doesn't escape to the rest of the body is very hard, very expensive, very painful, or a combination of the three.
I meaaan, Paracetamol goes through the same process and it lowers headaches.
Another example:
Ozempic gets injected into subcutaneous fat and works its way through the body, via the liver and heart, to alter the glp hormones in your pancreas and brain.
I'm sure we could think of lots of other examples where drugs are administered somewhere else to affect different areas.
OPs argument is as ignorant as flat-earth theorists.
Edit: and this shows this thread is a sausage-fest, as nobody mentioned either the pill or the morning-after pill which I'm sure most women would have probably said instantly.
Whoever takes Ozempic is basically a lab rat at this stage. No short term issues have been observed but we don't know the long term effects.
All medication has the possibility of side effects.
In the 20 years GLP-1 medication has been used by type-2 diabetes patients (because that's who they were really for), there have been more positives than negatives. Simple as that. There are side effects but those are better than the well-documented side effects of type-2 (e.g. cardiovascular disease, kidneys, eyes and feet, including the possibility of amputation. And that's before we get into the social stigma of being morbidly obese, the mental health issues associated with that and the social isolation that often comes with it).bb
The. You just proved my point, we have no idea how paracetamol actually works, after 130years of study.
https://www.livescience.com/health/we-may-finally-know-how-tylenol-works-and-its-not-how-we-thought
If we don't know how those processes work but we know the effect they cause, how can you so confidently say that the hair growth thing is BS? Knowing how it works is besides the point, if we know the effect it causes and it being ingested, how can you call bullshit to another thing having an effect in a different part of our body than where it's introduced?
I didn't prove your point and I'm sorry to learn you think I did.
And you shouldn't munch them too often because they do go through the liver etc.
OP has a point IMO.
What does that have to do with the fact that a pill being ingested has no direct relation with the place it has an effect on? That's the point I was trying to imply, thus countering the point OP was making.
IMO OP has a point as the delivery mechanism already exists (smearing it on the head) so making it take the longer way through our inner organs is, if not "bullshit" probably less good, as just smearing it has proven dangerous.
Maybe I just think nobody can be that stupid and believe eating a pill can't do something to the head.
Oh look, an amateur pharmacologist.
This is why we grind aspirins into our forehead to relieve a headache.
Yes, take a pill that goes to your stomach, absorbed by your intestines, into your bloodstream, liver, etc. to decrease your acne (isotretinoin)
... to stop asthma (salbutamol)
etc.
You say that but oral/sublingual fin and estradoil worked much better than topical Finn/minoxidil alone.
That includes when I was still taking estradoil orally.
It was originally for high blood pressure if I remember correctly. Side effect was unwanted hair growth. Very quickly became a topical for wanted hair growth.
Just putting it out there, because I have been silenced every time I have tried to talk about my negative experiences with minoxidil:
I was on a 10% topical formulation (so 2x the strength of regular Regaine/Rogaine) and the stuff destroyed my skin on a permanent basis. About a month or 2 in I started noticing lines and wrinkles where I previously had none, my eyes were really puffy, and I started to look like the 'after' photo in those PSAs about doing drugs. I had to come off the stuff and take collagen supplements daily to even slightly reverse that. I'm not back to baseline and likely never will be; that shit aged me by about 8 years in the span of 6 months. It was honestly much worse than hair loss itself.
Before I came off it, when I told the ""clinic"" that prescribed me what I was experiencing, they said it was placebo. Meanwhile, other hair loss sufferers online told me that I was making it up because I was jealous of other men's gains (???)
I am by no means saying this will necessarily happen if you take minox, but it wasn't even a reported side effect on the leaflet (where it lists common/uncommon/rare/very rare side effects), and I was genuinely trying to get it on there so people could be aware that this is a risk.
I would be super cautious of oral administration. When I was on the topical, it was only in contact with my scalp and any part of my body that would touch my pillow while sleeping I guess. Can't imagine what it would have done going through the digestive system instead.
Sincerely, fuck the hair restoration industry and the way it preys on desperate people.
Sorry that this isn't necessarily super on-topic (or uplifting), but seeing/hearing about minoxidil brings up a really bad experience.
Hey, thanks for sharing! Makes me feel okay about just going bald. 😆
The higher the strength the higher the alcohol concentration needed. I tried the 10% also had similar effects. Dropped to a 5% and used a foam instead and issue went away. Began to notice results a few months later. But just started taking estrogen coz then you get hair and tits.

all 85 comments