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'Rogaine' in a Pill? Oral Minoxidil Aces Major Hair Loss Trial (gizmodo.com)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/science@lemmy.world
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[–] 1 point 6 months ago (18 children)

I don't know. I have a great relationship with my barber. I don't think that our relationship is less meaningful just because the color of our skin.

I also do not believe that people in general, no matter the color of their skin, go only to barbers of their same skin color. Not all the world live in 1960s USA. Pretty sure plenty of white folks go to black barbers, and plenty of back folks go to white barbers.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    Pretty sure plenty of white folks go to black barbers, and plenty of back folks go to white barbers.

    Yeah, and that shows your level of ignorance here. Cosmetology and barber schools don't teach about black hair types and difficulties. White is default in these places and black hair care is considered a "specialty" skill. A black person can't just walk into any barbershop. Well, they could but it's unlikely anyone knows how to help them.

    I have to be done here, but this is definitely a blind spot for you. Maybe look into it?

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (14 children)

    Lots to unpack here.

    You still do not explain why white people's relationships with their barbers are less meaningful just because the color of their skin.

    Also I don't get why a person with white skin could not go to a barber who has black skin, which would know how to cut white hair because as you said it's the default, and build a great friendship and community there.

    Where I live most white people go to PoC barbershops because most barbershops are own by PoC overall.

    Black people and white people are allowed to be friends and to go to each others business now.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    Brother. As a white person, if you need a haircut you can go to any salon. Your hair isn't under constant scrutiny. Your default hairstyle isn't treated as something dirty or wrong. You don't experience othering or ostracization because of your hair.

    You, as an individual, can choose to have your hair be a connection to community. That can be a beautiful thing and losing that might be devastating to you, as an individual. A black person is thrust into community because of their hair because of systemic oppression. It's a struggle that brings everyone in that community together. You can't separate one from the other. Every black man who loses his hair loses this integral connection he has to his community.

    White people's connection to community through their hair is a choice, black people's connection to community through their hair is a survival tactic. That's why they're fundamentally different. You can choose, they have no choice but to do so.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (11 children)

    Sorry, I simply not buy that.

    We are not going to agree on this. So have a great day. It has been nice to read your point of view on the matter, and there are some things that I haven't considered before. Still do not personally agree but that's ok.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Assuming you understand others' personal and cultural experiences, especially when you aren't a member of that culture, and especially when you have more than one person saying you don't understand that culture, is a bad move. You don't have to "agree" or "disagree.". Sometimes you can just listen politely.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    Precisely why my argument has not been to invalidate black people's culture. But to criticize when someone tried to invalidated white people's culture, importance of their hair or relationships with their barbers.

    You could also apply the listen and not argue here when I say that hair and hair saloons are important for other ethnicities other that Black American.

    I can also tell you my personal experiences and culture. In fact it's what I've mostly say. Never said that black people doesn't have great relationships and community bonding in barbershops owned supposedly by other black people. I've been saying that white (and other ethnicities) also have that, and it's as important for them, because, you know, every human is important regardless of their skin color.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    People aren't arguing about white peoples and others not having community in the barbershop, but that there's a layer of risk due to hair type combined with prejudice that puts black hair salons and barbershops at a higher level of necessity. Even in Canada, or maybe especially in Canada, this is obvious.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (7 children)

    Cool. Have fun with your intentional ignorance. Your whiteness will undoubtedly shield you from any contradictory evidence if you don't actively fight against it. Cheers, mate!

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (6 children)

    Are you being racist against me?

    I think you are both assuming my race as white and them being pejorative against white people.

    That last message was not cool.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (5 children)

    Brother. Comrade. Friend. I assumed you're white because you think that racism is a thing in the past. That it's an icky, immoral thing for history textbooks and not something that anyone deals with today. I assume you're white because you defend white people in a scenario where they're privileged and that privilege shields them from the reality that others face. I assume you're white because when I give an example of what this experience is like for a non-white community member, you immediately center whiteness in your rebuke. You assume that speaking of the white experience as what it is is somehow racism.

    Whiteness isn't some failing of race, it's a systemic knowledge gap where white people assume themselves the default race and they think they can easily project their experiences onto other communities. They don't know the struggles of other communities because they aren't forced to confront how racism impacts their experience. White privilege isn't something that gives them a leg up, it just means they don't have to grapple with racism in their day-to-day lives.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

    I do not think racism is a think of the past. I do not believe I've ever said that. I don't even identify as white. My DNA has more in common with North Africa than with the Anglo-Saxon groups that created the concept of "being white", so you should check your prejudices.

    Racism is really prevalent today against PoC. I've anyone understood anything else from my messages I apologise for not delivering my wording right.

    That being said. "White" people is privileged in many areas. Going bald and suffering from balding is not one of them. And invalidating that feeling, saying that a white person going bald should not complain or suffer about it JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE. Rubs me the wrong way. Millions of white people suffer a lot because they are going bald, trying to invalidate that feeling just because they are white is just wrong.

    It's incredibly funny you say I believe "white is the default race" when you directly attacked white people, and your only defence for that offence was that was hair saloons are important for black people. Completely ignoring the thousands of different ethnicities that are neither black neither white. What about a balding Asian? can they complain if they go bald? A balding latin american? Which degree of anglo-saxon DNA has a person have to have in their blood to be able to complain about going bald?

    The root of this is that a person say that "white people cannot complain about going bald because they are white" and has yet not retracted that incredibly racist statement.

    You don't know what's going on in the life of that balding white person, and you CANNOT DEDUCE IT FROM THEIR RACE. You don't know if they are for instance a trans woman and suffering an incredible gender disforia because the balding. You don't know what importance have their hair in their lives. And trying to invalidate those feelings based only on their skin color is a bad thing to do.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't even identify as white. My DNA has more in common with North Africa than with the Anglo-Saxon groups that created the concept of "being white", so you should check your prejudices

    Sorry, can't let this go. This is the whitest fucking shit I've ever heard. Bro, non-white people don't fucking choose how to identify. They are identified and have to deal with how they're identified. The fact that you think you can choose to not identify with whiteness screams of the fact that you're absolutely steeped in it.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Especially if you're white and you just don't want to go bald cause "then you'll be old".

    My direct quote, it's interesting that that doesn't say what you said it does. I'm not saying this isn't a struggle for white people, silly. I'm saying that they have less to grapple with losing. Even if they have the same level of connection to community through their hair, losing that won't other them from an intrinsic part of their identity. That is a lesser loss, which was my point and the reason why I emphasized that.

    Completely ignoring the thousands of different ethnicities

    I'm not ignoring shit, dude. You asked what being white had to do with it, I gave a counter-example of someone who isn't white losing something deeper than a white person could face in the same situation. I don't need to explain that hair is a big part of many identities to demonstrate my point or cover every possible group that it could possibly apply to, just that it isn't the same for white people.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    And that's where I fundamentally disagree. And what I do think we could not agree.

    You said that black people (and supposedly all other ethnicities but white for some "absolutely-non-racist" reason), have something defined by their race that makes them lose something when they lose their hair that white people doesn't have.

    You said that black people lose a sense of community when they go bald because hair saloons are more important to them because of their race. I do not agree with this, as I know that hair saloons have not that "black community" meaning to all black people, and that many white people have that "community" feeling for their hair saloons. Bonding with other human beings in a hair saloon is not a race specific condition. And pointing out that while you outed white people for some "not-racist" reason you where unable to find more examples of not white people that lose something fundamentally related to their race that white people do not lose when they go bald.

    Going even further I would say that you are not even doing a favour to black people here. As I'm pretty sure that plenty of balding black people are suffering not because they "loose their saloon community", they suffer because they like their hair, they like how they look with hair, they believe that hair makes them look younger and more attractive, and they don't stop being black for feeling this way or because they don't have a "black saloon community". As these feelings are not race-lock. A black person, an asian person, a white person, a latin-american person... feeling like shit for aesthetic reasons because you are loosing your hair it's one pretty common suffering among most races and cultures I know.

    You also while accusing me to "white defaultism" are doing a very strong USA defaultism. Ignoring that the majority of black people of the word does indeed not live in the USA, and does not have those US related experiences. You can be in a country with 99,9% black people, with not weird shenanigans about racism and barbershops. And they still most of the time don't like when they go bald, why? because it makes them look old, same as an "privileged" white dude.

    On an even more profound note about racism. Trying to equate "community" things to "race" things... not good in my opinion. On this example, the moment you say that something fundamental about being black is a "community formed in the hair saloon" how do you think that makes feel black people who doesn't have such "saloon community"? Black people that go to a white barber, that do not bond in the barber for whatever reason, or maybe they cut their own hair because they are broke af? Are they not black? Are they less valid? There are common black experiences, of course, most of them related to a blatant racism against them. I just don't think that "hair saloons" and thing related with hair are one of those experiences.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Sure white people can go to any barber and be sure they have been trained in straight hair but that is not the point. White people with extremely curly or frizzy hair are also poorly served by society.

    So people of African descent have a skill gap to contend with, on top of prejudice to negotiate, and hair becomes a political thing where community needs to close ranks.

    Why is it a more meaningful relationship than for non-blacks? Tradition on top of comfort and security, and a layer of "insider knowledge."

    Getting huffy about it is pretty cringy, though, and I wish you were more open to learning.

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