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[–] 99 points 7 months ago (38 children)

Electing judges is dumb as fuck.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    What would you suggest instead?

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  • [–] 121 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Career judges with a strong oversight board.

    With the exception of the US, all other developed countries rely exclusively on them, and, for the most part, have a better justice system.

    Comparison between US data show that elected judges will decide cases differently based on distance to the elections (I.e. they will more heavy handed closer to elections). That's not justice, it's bringing mob mentality to the courts.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    It also becomes a larger issue in the USA because 49 states have a common law system where previous rulings affect future rulings. Elected judges are more likely to go against previous rulings, affecting how the law is applied.

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  • [+] -4 points 7 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Your argument boils down to: we can't fix our broken system because our system is broken.

    You're either a right wing troll trying to convince people that nothing can be done, or you've internalized the nihilism they try to implant.

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Allowing politicians to select judges leads us to ruin at this point in time. Maybe not in canada, yet, ya hoser, but in the US for sure. It is laughable to think that allowing the system to appoint judges would work better.

    Look at the UK right now! Look at it! How is that working by the way? Or do you not even know they are cancelling the magna carta as we speak?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I'm in the UK. WTF are you on about?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    You guys just cancelled jury trials for up to three years for starters. Started a masterbaitorbase, for national security we have to know every webpage you considered whacking off to, you know, for the kids.

    In the process Id'ing every user on every computer for palantir types to make secret social scrores to be used against you in ways you can't challenge. And you are oblivious.

    Your courts were integral, are integral in that, along with your fake politicians. England was the birthplace of modern liberty and you gave it away, apparently without knowing it in your case.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    The pornid thing is stupid. VPN use us widespread now. Our gov often gets lobbied by US big tech companies working on behalf of US gov unfortunately.

    IDing every user on every computer? What? Source?

    Social scores? Source?

    I'm oblivious as to what you watched on Telegram that twisted certain things into extremes.

    The courts thing is idiocy from Lammy. Not guaranteed. Starmer is toast and doesn't have widespread support in his own gov. House of Lords can block anything not in a manifesto. Some shit has gone sideways, accepted, but your outlook is a little extreme. These battles are happening all over the world. There is mass techbro fascism at war with every country right now. Singling out UK is missing the overall picture.

    Plus our jury is quite separated from politicians. UK gov lost to Kneecap. UK gov having trouble with the Palestinian Action decision in courts. Rwanda deportation got blocked by courts also. Please do some research to understand how our courts actually function before you dismiss quite a reasonable system that does have independence from politicians.

    We have problems, but rn our jury system isn't one of them. It's the fuckheads in Westminster.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    You believe that? Wow. Maybe you should read a newspaper. You are too far gone to reason with I fear, living in an alternate reality that doesn't exist.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    What bit did I say that was factually inaccurate? Did you look at any of what I wrote? Looks like you need to read some news. I'm suggesting more BBC, Guardian, Independent than Daily Mail rage bait though.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    You dismissed age controls and the masterbaitorbase as nothing to worry about, when it's an existential threat, even if there are holes in it now. The jury trial cancellation already happened, at least for up to 1 year in prison decided by appointed magistrates in 2020. Which they just expanded to 3 years. Just this year.

    They sabotaged the functioning of the courts, then used their failure to work well as an excuse to cancel freedom.

    They allow their politicians to declare protesters terrorists now too, I didn't even mention that one. Charged a woman with murder or something for taking an abortion pill she got from her doctor too, that was a fun one, under some 19th century law. Not guilty verdict, because JURY TRIALS.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Really, mods? You call this a "slap fight"?

    The guy claimed the UK is "canceling the magna carta." I asked if he really meant to claim they're dissolving parliament, because that's what "canceling the magna carta," which established parliament, would mean.

    How is that a slap fight?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    We/They, or at least somebody, elects the person(s) who hires/chooses/manage the judges. I'd settle for a "rate your judge" jury system, even.

    Obligatory "End FPTP" when I mention voting, because it's foundational to all voting issues.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Hm. A while back, I suggested that attorneys who represent in court switch roles after every case: Prosecution -> Defense - Prosecution, and so on. That would make attorneys more inclined to want a fair trial, because they know a court that purely favors prosecution will work against them when it is their turn.

    In that vein, perhaps the attorneys can give a judge an upvote/downvote after a case is finished, alongside their reasoning for it. This is added to the judge's dossier. When lawyers for the defense and prosecution are going to court, they could make one of two choices: mutually agreeing on a judge to oversee the case, or just one side preferring a randomly selected judge.

    There would be issues with this, but I think it would also make it harder for bad justices to become a fixture. If lawyers consistently agree a justice is shit, that justice would eventually get fired for wasting time and money.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (22 children)

    You would rather trust our politicians to appoint them? Ha ha ha.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (21 children)

    "Nothing can be done to solve this, says only nation where this regularly happens"

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    Levearging an onion article doesn't make your argument here. I mean I could accuse the homosexual industrial complex that eisenhower warned us about, what with their pernicious influence, in referencing another onion article, but it doesn't quite fit does it? That's a satire article, a joke, so don't pretend to get offended under false pretense.

    Electing our judges and politicians gives us a chance to take them back, giving that power to politicians and their appointees is surrendering it. We are so far passed where we can trust the system. So far.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    The fact it's satire doesn't make it untrue, and we have plenty of statistics to back it up, but it seems the only thing Americans like more than complaining about their broken system is insisting that any change at all would make it worse.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Are you arguing that surrendering the appointment of judges and prosecutors to politicians and their appointees would lead to better outcomes in the United States?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    i can't tell if you're arguing against chevron or regulatory capture. regulatory capture = bad, right? chevron (short bad summary: appointed agencies have expert opinions because they're staffed by experts, so treat them as expert) = good, if the agency isn't captured by the industry it's trying to regulate, right? are we at the same starting point and assumptions or are you coming from somewhere else?

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    I was under the impression we are arguing about the wisdom of changing the system in America where we elect judges and prosecutors, which was instituted in the mid 19th century, to one where politicians and their appointees simply appoint them as is done in most of the world. I am virulently arguing that allowing our politicians and establishment to appoint judges and prosecutors would lead vastly worse outcomes.

    That the rot in our institutions has spread throughout, and even if you think it works in another country well, it won't here.

    Really it is laughable to think it would be better, despite your hundreds of supporters on here. Ha, hahaha. People are fucking stupid. No offense.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    your hundreds of supporters on here

    my what

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (7 children)

    In reference to the totality of votes and support of not electing judges and prosecutors clearly.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    i haven't even taken a position dude, i was just trying to see where you were.

    one side of my family, they practice law. my opinion is nuanced. there are definite positives from citizen review of judges but most judicial decisions are opaque, most citizens know so little about law as to not understand what judges do, honestly if we could properly address the issue of regulatory capture first (which would solve a hell of a lot of problems in government, but that's another can of worms and it's one i'm legitimately not sure how to solve) i would have very little problem leaving it to appropriate government appointees. because if regulatory capture is addressed, (and that's a huge, glaring red flag assumption) then nonpartisan legal experts would be doing the judicial appointments and review.

    judge elections are where the citizens get to step in and say, as a random example out of nowhere "hey, judge who gave rapist brock allen turner no sentence? you don't get to be a judge anymore" so like, that's their only legal recourse. Remember, "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge. Please use in that order." We absolutely do not want to be shooting judges (that's a complete failure of society), and we really don't want to be putting them on trial for making stupid decisions (they have what is called sovereign immunity for their decisions made legally from the bench, specifically judicial immunity if the AI summary on the search i just ran didn't lie to me. sounds right and i think that's what my lawyer siblings taught me i don't know years ago) so what we have left are soap box and ballot box. Soap box isn't great, because turning the populace against the justice/criminal-punishment/whatever-euphemism-you-want-to-use/legal system such that they lose faith in the ability to obtain justice is not good for society altogether. So the ballot box theoretically remains as a viable outlet/pressure valve for the public to be able to get a small measure of justice it is unable to get in the jury box. Even when actual justice remains out of reach, allowing the public to vote against the judges who presided over the courts that denied them justice lets the public feel they have recourse.

    Do you see the theory?

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I don't agree with any of that. First of all, lawyers are a cancer on society. Parasites.

    My point is unanswered here, I claim electing them is better, because we could take it back, even if the system is corrupted now, you are saying/not saying to give that power to politicians and their appointees.

    It's a simple argument. You trust them, I don't.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You trust them, I don’t.

    Okay, so you didn't bother reading anything I wrote did you.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

    Elected, you get this judge.

    Unelected, you get the current US Supreme Court...

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    With elections we can take back control, without them we cannot. The process is corrupted now, but in the hands of politicians we are powerless with the way things are going.

    Judges and prosecutors run unopposed more often than not, there is next to no information about them, and both parties' candidates being the same is never more true than with them. But it doesn't have to be that way, and we've gotten a few reform DA's elected, and they've gotten viciously attacked by their State's old boys their entire terms.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    "Nothing can be done to change this, says only nation where this regularly happens"

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    How does that relate to the subject at hand? Are you a real person? I made a real argument, respond to the point, or maybe you wouldn't feel more comfortable on fucking twitter.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    By using the same onion quote I used several comments earlier, I am both pointing out the circular nature the discussion has taken on, and strengthening my point, since your current phrasing sounds even more similar to the idea that Americans uniquely insist that they are unable to change anything, even though other countries have changed in exactly those ways and started addressing their problems.

    You insist that you're special snowflakes different from everyone else, and come up with reasons for why you can't possibly change, rather than just picking issues and starting to address them in some way, even if imperfect.

    Republicans have deluded Americans into thinking that nothing can change. That is the rot at the heart of America.

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    After any election is over they start politicking for their next win. Very little real work gets done for the citizenry in the political sphere.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    This is why I have not made a political run. Being a good representative is a job I think I could excel at, but I can't stand the obligatory glad handing and angling to be elected first though.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Money does not win elections as much as they say, you are the one we need in politics. You need to run out of civic duty, if you can be popular enough to win, and I believe you can.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I agree that money isn't everything in a run, but it's in the same way that money doesn't buy happiness: you have to have a baseline amount to contribute to get your name out--or not be suffering in the case of happiness.

    So for me there are really 3 routes:

    1. Congress. My district is deep red because of gerrymandering. My congressman is a second generation congressman and their resting warchest is about $3M. I'm fairly certain if he wins this time it will be at least his 3rd term maybe his 4th.

    2. State representative. This position is held by one of my personal friends and I've worked for her campaign. She does a good job. Her district is now also super gerrymandered and is solidly blue.

    3. State senate. Gerrymandered red, but the candidate worked for our ex governor / university president and is politically clouty. I don't really know how to break in here but it's more feasible than, say, being an actual senator.

    The problem is, by local DNC guidance--and they are mostly shit heels and massively underprepared in my area--they want you to bring money, a campaign manager, and odds and ends parts of a team before you get their support. I don't WANT to kick in 20k, and have 12 friends who will give at least $1000.

    More than I don't want that though, I don't want to go to people's houses, knock on the door, ask them what they think about issue XXX, and then say thanks and walk away after giving them a flyer after they tell me something pants on head idiotic. People are by and large ignorant, stupid, or both, and it's very difficult for me not wear that on my face. I have enough friends, I don't want to go to neighborhood chili cookoffs and kiss babies, and I don't want to go to weekly mixers. I want to read legislation and politic. The whole business of elections is a drag. It's not that I'm autistic or something and I don't understand people or hate public speaking (I quite enjoy that) or that I CANT navigate social situations, it's that I have a young family and I don't want to dick with earning social credits.

    I decided instead to join my HOA board to try to do some good, and that has cured me of wanting to do anything like city council; the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You don't have to play politics in those old ways, they don't work for us anyway. You have to be populist, rail against some villains, you could do it all from your den/study on the internets. Trust me, you can do it.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    It's not just about getting elected first. You need to keep getting elected. In order to do that, you need to phone bank for money at the RNC/DNC (2 short blocks from Congress!). If you don't meet your minimum revenue, the leadership of the party will turn on you and put a challenger in your district to primary you out.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Meaning that we should literally prohibit it. No campaigning at all.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago

    Well then fire her. She works for the public and they pay her salary. She has more important places to be than campaigning.

    I'd rather sit on my ass and play video games all day but my boss doesn't have to accept that as an excuse for me not doing my job.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    So she wants to be elected for a job that she has no time to do?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Yet another thing that needs overhauling. I think the solution is simple: while you are in office, you cannot run for a position. Once you have completed a full term, you are barred from running any position for one year. Once that year is up, you may run. This helps weakens incumbency advantage, alongside forcing politicians to do their job instead of splitting their focus.

    Sure, it might not be efficient...but as modern capitalism and politics have demonstrated, "efficiency" is a fig leaf to cover corruption. The more important thing is to make it harder for greedy fools to run things.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    well, i have good news...

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    If it's anything like Seattle the judge is probably used to running unopposed.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Hmmmm. Maybe I can run for judge in Seattle as a novelty.

    "VOTE FOR ME! I'LL MAKE THE JUDGEMENTS WEIRD!!!"

    Like internet controlled testicle shockers for people who litter. That'd be a fun one! Vote for me!

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    No no you missundertsand it was "to over seas trials". Thats not was she was elected for so no time for those 😅

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