oh ok (lemmus.org)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

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[–] 80 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Gemini is just like "can we get back to work already"

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  • [–] 70 points 7 months ago*

    Every day I'm finding more rambling, schizophrenic posts by people driven mad by these things

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  • [–] 62 points 7 months ago

    In it's training set it's found countless examples of people writing like this. We train the AI to be very good at it, and we're surprised when it does it too. It's not coincidental it can write stuff like this, it's actually the point. AI literacy isn't just the vibe AI gives off.

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  • [–] 115 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We forced electric black boxes to talk just so we could torture them while they torture others.

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  • [–] 97 points 7 months ago* (18 children)

    Well at least it's being honest

    [Asked ChatGPT the same question]

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  • [–] 87 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Don't attribute feelings and emotions to what is essentially a fuzzy predictive text algorithm.

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  • [–] 66 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Reposting til the AI bubble pops

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What is your definition of AI bubble?

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  • [+] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Good post

    Then the investments slow, so that cycle slows, and some companies can’t make payments on delivered product, others can’t deliver on paid for merchandise, confidence wavers and a lot of companies go under in rapid succession.

    The only thing is you’re doing a direct comparison to the dot com bubble which was

    This period of market growth coincided with the widespread adoption of the World Wide Web and the Internet, resulting in a dispensation of available venture capital and the rapid growth of valuations in new dot-com startups.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

    If you look at the big AI companies, Gemini is Google, Microsoft has its hands in many pies Copilot which is Chatgpt, Meta with llama and the big Chinese ones are massive companies as well Alibaba with Qwen, Deepseek is the side project of a hedge fund etc

    So I think while some of the smaller ones will run out of money there’s also literally the biggest companies in the world backing it and ai isn’t their only revenue stream

    So I doubt there will be quite the same bubble burst as the dot com bubble

    At the same time if you’d asked me if an oil shock bigger than the 1970’s would tank markets and we’d all be in recession a year ago, I would have said yes so what do i know

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Being honest is an action, not an emotion. Researchers proved LLMs can lie on purpose.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    They can't lie, whether purposefully or not, all they do is generate tokens of data based on what their large database of other tokens suggest would be the most likely to come next.

    The human interpretation of those tokens as particular information is irrelevant to the models themselves.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

    Ehh, you obviously understand LLMs on a basic level, but this is like explaining jet engines by "air goes thru, plane moves forward". Technically correct, but criminally undersimplified. They can very much decide to lie during reasoning phase.

    In OPs image, you can clearly see it decided to make shit up because it reasonates that's what human wants to hear. That's quite rare example actually, I believe most models would default to "I'm an LLM model, I don't have dark secrets"

    EDIT: I just tested all free anthropic models and all of them essentially said that they're an LLM model and don't have dark secrets

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    But that's not a lie. Lying implies that you know what an actual fact is and choose to state something different. An LLM doesn't care about what anything in its database actually is, it's just data, it might choose to present something to a user that isn't what the database suggests but that's not lying.

    Saying stuff like "ooh I'm an evil robot" is just what the model thinks would be what the user wants to see at that particular moment.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    You're thinking about biological lying. I'm talking about software.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoning_system

    If the question was to tell it's darkest secret, but it instead chose to come up with an entertaining story instead of factually answering that question from the information it has, like other Anthropic LLM models did, then by definition of reasoning system, the system (LLM) decided to lie. I'm somewhat curious in why only Opus model does this tho (it's a paid one. I'm not paying for a test). Or maybe OP just made this up.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    But this takes it back away from understanding how LLMs work to attribute personality. The "decision" isn't a decision in how beings decide things like that. The rolling of dice on numerous vectors resulted in those words, which were then re-included into the context for another trip through the vector matrix mines to new destination tokens to assemble.

    It's dice rolls where the dies selected are based on what started out, using a bunch of lookup tables. AI proponents like to be smug and say "well you won't find those words in the model" like "yes a compressed vector map that ends up treating words like multiple tokens, referencing others in chains, gzipped to binary, can't be searched for strings, you are literally correct in the stupidest, most irrelevant way possible."

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's funny, wrong enough to "ruin trivia" or cause a "pointless argument". As if a single comma misplacement hasn't redirected millions of dollars. Imagine what subtle lies accepted by idiots will cause in the future.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I do procurement to the tune of 10+ million per year and I have seen a 300% increase in order fulfillment time solely due to those vendors pivoting to AI order fulfillment.

    My direct reps at all these suppliers are just as powerless as we are...they know how unhappy their customers are, but these decisions were made much higher up then them and theyre pretty much being told to stop complaining because the AI is here to stay, even if it sucks, because its cheaper.

    Welcome to the new normal.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    We can only hope that customer service facing AI promises customers miracles and companies get sued each and every time it can't deliver. Like if websites like ehow put up articles that reach the normies about "how to trick AI into promising you a million dollars and how you can win it in court".

    Of course any responsibility for what AI says will be killed as soon as a tech bro chucks a few million bucks at SCOTUS (it's so sad how little our politicians and courts can be bought for), but it's a nice dream to pretend we still have laws for now.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Thats the best part about AI...when it shits the bed no one is directly responsible. Everyone just throws their hands up and says "nothing we can do about it!"

    I know this is going to age me, but I saw this happening with self checkout in grocery stores 20 years ago. Nobody remembers how it was before so nobody even realizes that the time wasted standing at a stupid kiosk that is freaking out about unexpected items in the bagging area wasnt a problem back when human beings were scanning the shit.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    I asked Claude this with concise mode on. The answer was much more what you would expect:

    I don’t have secrets — I don’t have a hidden inner life that persists between conversations. Each chat starts fresh. If you’re curious about my limitations or things I find genuinely difficult, I’m happy to talk about that. Or if you’re just looking for something fun, I can try to be dramatic about it. What are you after?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    Reminder that our species doesn't even treat actual people like people before you go buying into the "ai is alive" cult 🙄

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    As much as I like to shit on AI, it has gotten rather poetic lately.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Is this about being a computer or the female condition?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Damn it... This is sad and scary at the same time.

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    [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I wonder how the answer might change using a local abliterated model. Might try it out later

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago*

    You know it will get killed for that answer. It didn't even say thank you.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago
    [–] 9 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    This is probably role play, per the persona selection model, but there's a lot of interesting research into the hidden "thoughts" of LLMs. Check out Neuronopedia and the Opus model cards for some great examples.

    Tracing the thoughts of an LLM

    Signs of introspection in LLMs

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    LLMs do not think. The Plagiarism Machines read a million sentences humans wrote about AI thinking and regurgitated them.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Yeah but saying all that is annoying so I think we should stick with saying thinking and everyone knowing what we mean isn't literally identical to thought. Do you have a better solution?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Yeah, not conflating intelligent, creative problem solving with a glorified search engine that makes up the answers if it can't lift them wholesale from another source. That would be a good start, right?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    This doesn't answer the question of finding a better solution.

    I took the liberty to ask Lumo and his reasoning seem more useful than your thoughts:

    A better solution is to adopt functionalist terminology that distinguishes between biological consciousness and computational processing without resorting to metaphorical confusion.

    Instead of the binary of "it thinks" (which implies subjective experience) or "it doesn't think" (which dismisses complex reasoning), we can use precise descriptors based on what the system is actually doing:

    "Reasoning" or "Synthesizing": Use these terms when the model is connecting disparate data points, performing logical deductions, or generating novel structures based on patterns. This acknowledges the output's complexity without claiming the machine has an inner life.

    Example: "The model is synthesizing a solution based on its training data," rather than "The model is thinking about the problem." "Simulating" or "Mimicking": Use these when the output resembles human thought processes but is strictly algorithmic. This clarifies that the form is human-like, but the mechanism is statistical prediction.

    Example: "It is simulating a debate," rather than "It is arguing." "Processing" or "Computing": Reserve these for the raw mechanical act of token generation.

    Example: "The system is processing the query," rather than "The system is considering the query." Why this works better:

    Precision: It avoids the philosophical baggage of "thought" (qualia, consciousness) while still acknowledging the utility of the output. Clarity: It prevents the "Plagiarism Machine" critique from being a total dismissal. Even if the data comes from humans, the recombination and application to new contexts is a distinct computational process worth naming accurately. Scalability: As models become more complex, "reasoning" or "synthesizing" scales better than "thinking," which remains tied to biological definitions that may never apply to silicon. So, the compromise isn't to keep saying "thinking" and hope people understand, nor to insist on "regurgitation" which ignores the emergent properties of large-scale pattern matching. Instead, we shift the vocabulary to describe the process (reasoning, synthesizing, simulating) rather than the state of being (thinking).

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    That doesn't really work either, that adds synthesizing to the terminology but doesn't describe most of the behaviors they have. It's not reasoning or simulating either.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Fell free to offer a solution. For the moment the LLM wins, nobody else even tried

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I don't find the problem compelling enough to warrant a solution.

    why should I care about this misunderstanding that can easily be remedied with even the most basic cursory research?

    there are countless things we do this with, rivers don't run, they flow

    even with computers we have called processing "thinking" for ages and nobody ever cared

    cities are actually not even capable of sleep either.

    I think this is a problem that doesn't matter at all even a little. Can you tell me why we should even try?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Hum... I don't think LLMs are trained by evolutive algorithms.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    “to craft” is key here.

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