I was raised to address strangers and those I wish to show social deference to as "Sir" or "Ma'am". It's a difficult habit to break, as it is deeply engrained.

What is an equivalent gender neutral honorific that is relatively common in English? If I can't break the habit I'd rather have a substitute word to use instead of an awkward pause in the middle of addressing someone

I'd just use Google to ask but I'd rather ask the people directly rather than an AI generated answer based off of Reddit threads

ETA: I suppose if Yessir and Yes'm work, Yesn't could too? Mostly joking… but maybe… 🤔

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[+] 57 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 51 points 7 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I've seen enough posts related to etymology or historical use of words where they, either misrepresent the facts to fit a narrative or just make shit up, that I try to look it up my self. I also find etymology fascinating so that helps.

    In this case they are absolutely right.

    Both Mr and. Mrs,ms are derived from master and mistress (teachers) and both of those words stem from the Latin word Magister.

    Edit: fun fact the English verb stick is the same word as the noun stick and comes from the same origin the Germanic word stik which also meant a piece of wood and to pierce/adhere or sharp. But wait it's older than that the Latin word stigare also means pierce. And share the same ancestry, namely indo-european. Turns out we humans have been talking about sticks for a long time.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    ...crap, I'm cis male and I wanna be addressed as "mage"...

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    ...why not just "magister" and avoid a word that already has very strong, current connotations with fantasy?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Let's hit "magister" and then work our way down. I swear to god I'd change the shit out of my pronouns to fit mage.

    The issue, I guess, is that Mr./Ms. have had centuries to be normalized into common use, whereas "magister" still holds a bit of prestige or honor to it. I'm just spitballin'. I'm definitely going to read more into this when I have some time.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Although it was also my first choice, magister is masculine. Latin is a gendered language (with more than just m/f) and AFAIK magister isn't neutral.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Magister does not change with gender tho, and generally it should not be a problem since we can just not consider the word gendered, the problem with gendered words is mostly given by social constructs, the word does not have any since it's long dead

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  • [–] 46 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Having worked in the retail sector for some time, I quickly learned that appearances are often deceiving after a few embarrassing blunders on my part. I taught myself to call everyone 'my friend'. I had no more problems after that.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Also if you have to hand someone off to another colleague, I find you can just use "we", and it still feels polite. At least compared to calling them "the customer" (clumsy) or "they" (weird, when they're right next to you). 😃

    "So, we're looking for [product], and we need it to be [thing]. Oh, and we have a budget of £25."

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  • [–] 67 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 71 points 7 months ago
    [–] 18 points 7 months ago

    Some of my friends use "yes them" jokingly to replace yes sir/yes ma'am. Certainly not correct in any grammatical way, but it does flow well enough and is kindof funny as long as the person being addressed doesnt mind.

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  • [+] 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This one bugs me a bit. I’m sure it’s said with good intentions, but I have a client who calls everyone on my team “friend” whether or not she knows us, and it always rubs me the wrong way. We’re not friends, she’s the client in a professional setting, and she has never shown any interest in getting to know me enough to actually call me “friend” and have it mean something, so it always comes across as superficial and unnaturally folksy.

    As someone who doesn’t have a ton of deep friendships, the ones I do have matter a lot to me, which means I don’t like to throw around the word “friend” lightly.

    Could just be my own emotional hangups though.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    Ok so reading the comments, from Appalachia, and I didn't see it about anyone specific.

    So the reason why nothing seems correct is because nothing new will have the same level of cultural history. If you're trying to show social deference to people things like "friend" or "pal" won't work, and "chief" sounds too informal.

    You can still use "sir" and "ma'am" under most circumstances, so the question is more about your circumstances.

    Are you trying to find something that replaces those honorifics all together, or do you want a backup third option in case someone says they are non binary?

    Are you still in the same culture, or have you moved to a culture that doesn't emphasize honorifics like you were raised with?

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    You're amazing and so are your questions.

    I'm looking for a third option for sir/ma'am, and a substitute for Chief that's a bit more formal.

    The culture I'm in now is not as formal, this isn't so much finding something to work within the culture of this area as it is to marry my culture to the one I find myself in. I have very little to connect me to my people here and so the traditions I choose to keep are more important as a result. I like saying sir/ma'am. It's the verbal equivalent of holding the door open for someone. But for some people being addressed that way is invalidating, and I want to meet people where they are, not force them to come to me.

    I like Magister as a third option for Mr/Mrs., and Professor as a more formal Chief. But sir/ma'am has me stumped

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Well if you want to keep a similar motif, Cap'n is vaguely formal, vaguely military esque, and it's gender neutral. Could be seafaring or land based.

    You probably won't find anything with the same level of formality as sir/ma'am, so you're going to have to compromise a little bit on that front, but I think people will like the attempt regardless!

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I would recommend asking the person what they prefer, for people you know ahead of time are non-binary. For people you don't know ahead of time, choose whichever you think is most likely, apologize if you get it wrong, and ask them afterwards what they prefer.

    Unless it is adopted widely by society, any third option will likely be met with confusion, and will still likely offend some people.

    For a suggestion of a third option, however, might I offer "boss"? Slightly more formal than chief (in my experience), gender neutral, and allows you to make it as playful or respectful as the situation needs.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Just be aware that there are some slavery/prison connotations to boss in the US and some might be offended.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Was not aware of that! I'm assuming it is a South/West thing? Never encountered that in the North East

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Mostly southern but definitely prisons as well. Predominant in chain gang type situations. An example more people might be familiar with would be Morgan Freeman's line "bathroom break, boss?" in Shawshank Redemption when he's been paroled and working at the grocery store. Yes, it's from a movie but it's also a reverence more likely to resonate. Shawshank takes place in the Northeast, hence prison...uh, "culture".

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I've heard "boss" used in prison movies and such, but I've also heard it in places of employment (even when the person isn't the supervisor or boss), between customer and service worker (both directions), with strangers ("Watch your step there, boss, there's a sudden drop"). Never saw anyone offended by it in my own experience, so it's news to me (and good to know) that there could be groups out there that are offended by it.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I only mentiomed it as a precautionary thing. I use boss all the time and can hardly recall receiving negative reactions, but it might be received poorly in other places. One of many downsides to living in a redneck state is that some intolerable shit is normalized.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    As a foreigner whose native tongue has gendered nouns and adjectives: we default to sir to sir-presenting people, ma'am to ma'am presenting, and "sir? ma'am? " when unsure and clarification is needed.

    I do not understand why you'd want to preemptively force gender someone by choosing a neutral/or newspeak/ form of address - to me it seems much much much worse than defaulting to asking for preference ("sir? ma'am?" option is the best - it declares you've noticed the interlocutor is a nb and passes the ball to them).

    If you're looking for 1 word that would always work, I recommend embracing your inner old British Lady and calling everyone pet (petal), dear or love. :-)

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Clearly we need to start adopting Japanese honorifics that way we can just call people -san.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    There's like, 20 or more honorifics in Japanese. I think that -sama is more culturally equivalent for the Appalachian sir/ma'am, but those honorifics, iirc, usually have to go with a name or a job or something, while the Appalachian sir/ma'am can be used with strangers.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    Ran into that problem with my enby friend. Specifically in the jokey context, like when a friend asks you to do something and you say “Yes Sir!” Or “Yes Ma’am!” in a kind of over the top way. They hadn’t really thought about it either and they were flummoxed too. We wound up with “Yes Colonel!”

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago
    [–] 32 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    I was raised in southern hospitality, so I know exactly what you’re going through.

    I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

    “Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

    Turns out 99% of interactions don’t depend on what genitals a person’s rocking. I guess if you’re asked to identify a suspect in a crime it might help? Point being, stop focusing on their crotch and what they’re doing with it 😁 you’ve been trained to be weird about it.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

    “Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

    ALL of these have pronouns. At least one of them has multiple pronouns! Haha

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What are talking about? Said it perfectly fine, are being intentionally dense. Sorry but people like annoy the shit out of.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    Didn't be a pedant, and don't laugh after being a pedant. It's condescending and rude.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I can't not address a person, that's incredibly rude.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    You can address someone without gendered pronouns... they even gave examples.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I can and do address people without gendered pronouns. OP was suggesting not addressing them with an honorific at all.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That might be the words they said while completely ignoring the examples, but those examples made it abundantly clear that they meant gendered pronouns.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Their examples:

    “Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

    The individual they are speaking to is not formally addressed. I'm not going to address a stranger informally.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I use "Captain". It has been met with 100% success.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 60 points 7 months ago (18 children)

    FWIW, Sir is gender neutral in the military — this came up in Star Trek Voyager, anyway. Basically if your senior officer isn’t male, they’re sir until they tell you otherwise.

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  • [–] 54 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    FWIW, Sir is not gender neutral in Gamestop.

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Sir is gender neutral in fictional militaries. Every woman holding a commission I ever encountered was ma'am. Didn't matter the country.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Not sure what military you served in, but the one I served in definitely didn’t call women sir until instructed otherwise. However, “mister” may be correct for all warrant officers.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I served in the US Air Force. Everyone was "Sir" or "Ma'am" and it was very gender-specific. Even for the few years we allowed transgender folks to serve (before Trump banned them), you referred to them by their preferred transition title.

    We don't have warrant officers in the Air Force, so I can't speak to their title of address.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Same, USAF but decades ago. It was actually the USAF protocol office I called to verify the “mister” address for WO. Not because we had them, but because they still have protocol for how to address them, generally army chopper pilots if I recall.

    eta: I should also clarify that I don’t know that to be true. It could easily be one of those ID-10t situations where somebody tricked us into calling protocol and they went along with it. Could be complete bullshit.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    When I served (2002-2022), we were always told that warrant officers are technically officers, so treat them the same as any officer. So we would've addressed them as Sir or Ma'am if we came across them. As well as saluting them if we met them outside.

    I don't recall ever addressing anyone as "Mister" in the service. Heck, I retired a few years ago and now I feel weird when people call me Mr. [Last Name]. I got so used to being called by my rank and last name for 2 decades. Mister just sounds wrong.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Um, Starfleet... as mentioned (Star Trek Voyager... Star Trek's Starfleet is inspired by the Navy).

    I never served... Mostly due to health reasons

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you were using the Star Trek reference as just a supporting claim that militaries follow this practice. But I see now you meant only in that context.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, I meant that Star Trek did it, and Star Trek is (supposed to be) based on the Navy, so as one who's never served, I really only have Star Trek Voyager (which had a female captain) to go by.

    With female bosses, I've always asked them if they want to be called sir or ma'am. It sounds like a good way to catch hands, but if you ask out of respect and good faith, chances are you'll be answered in kind.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Not really...

    Like, yeah, probably in Star Trek, but that would have been a projected evolution of modern society, not a reflection of current reality.

    Everyone would assume "sir" and if it's over an email no one is getting worked up about it.

    But call a female officer "sir" to her face and I don't think it will go well

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    "My friend" is pretty safe

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Just say Y'all, it pretty much covers that

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Your highness

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