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[–] 91 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (24 children)

A lot of committed vegans I know don't sweat over it if mistakes are made on the "vegan" menu. They advise the staff politely, discarding what they can by hand and eating that they can't. Wasting a meal makes a mockery of the point of being a vegan in many ways.

This teenager possibly gets it. Dad is intentionally overdoing it. There is a lot we can learn about how to do better politics here. Perfection is the enemy of the good.

Edit: Obviously allergies and diseases are a whole other thing. There is a reason getting it right is still very important, but if that's the case nobody is messing around, especially not Dad.

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago (18 children)

    My wife has a milk allergy. Depending on the ingredient, it can go pretty bad. If they put regular cream in something, she might need to use her EpiPen.

    There's no grumbling or clarification that works. The server will almost always write down no milk, no cheese. Half the time, the kitchen will forget, mix up, or ignore it; sometimes, the server grabs the wrong thing from the warmer.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (14 children)

    Without knowing your location many if not most restaurants in US will only allow allergy meals be delivered by a manager. When I worked Buffalo Wild Nuggets the manager would have to prepare and deliver the allergy meal. It keeps the customers more honest when it isn't just a server taking the blame.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    Yeah, US, It's super rare for her to be taken seriously. I don't think we've had a manager come out for an allergy in 8 years now and that was vacation at Disney.

    More often, if they try, they'll send the waitstaff back out to complain that she can't have the meal because there are eggs in this or that when she was clear about it being milk, they want to tie it into dairy and for some unknown reason, eggs are considered dairy.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Yeah, why ARE eggs dairy? Just because milk products and eggs are both refrigerated? (in the U.S.)

    AI slop has frustrated me in my search to find out. I don't need 100 hastily-generated pages telling me that eggs aren't actually dairy. I want to know why they are in the dairy category!

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    It's likely because eggs are usually found in the dairy section, and people are stupid.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)

    I'm sure that's the case now, but I'm curious why it started. Is that not the case in non-western countries?

    I wouldn't think that there's anything about dairy cow ranching that specifically lends itself to also raising egg hens, but I'm no farmer!

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    It's fairly common in my neck of the woods for ranchers to also have a few chicken houses, but I doubt that's the reason the two are conflated. But my area is one of the major chicken farming areas in the state.

    I think it's just people assuming they're related because they're in the same section of the store, but really that's just so they don't have to have a separate cooling setup just for eggs.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe before supermarkets, eggs and milk were the main items being refrigerated in the grocery store. Meat would have come from a butcher until the 50s or 60s, I think? (my back hurts, but not THAT much)

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Eggs actually don't need to be refrigerated outside of the US. The reason why we have to is because the government requires eggs to be washed so they lose the protective coating that prevents them from going bad quickly.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Yeah, I alluded to that in my original comment. I don't know if bleaching the shell is an issue other than for storage but it wouldn't surprise me.

    It is sad how much we've allowed Agribusiness to decide what we eat and how we live.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Best I can tell, and that's not with much authority, the people who made the US food pyramid put them together because they were stored in the same place in the grocery store. And it was the pyramid that was seen as a source of authority. From every other angle the don't line up.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Eggs are not dairy, that's why you can't find it.

    Unless you are using some esoteric definition of dairy that I'm not aware of.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    You're missing my point, and that of the person to whom I replied.

    Why are eggs in the dairy aisle of American supermarkets and commonly considered dairy products?

    Obviously eggs aren't made of milk.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I have a milk allergy as well. I know her pain.

    My I recommend getting into Asian food and trying vegan restaurants? Way less potential for accidents.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    Oh we've been dealing with it for a long time now :)

    She does a lot of vegan places when she can, when she can't she tries to pick stuff that's unmistakable.

    For the most part it's mexican food and subs where she gets screwed, it can be hard to tell crema from mayo and cheese from mayo

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Assuming you are willing/qualified to be a spokesperson for vegans:

    When you encounter a menu item marked "Vegan" and discover that it isn't, do you often speak to the manager to advise them to either remove the label or change the recipe?

    I'm not vegan, but I often (not OFTEN but more frequently that my wife would prefer!) mention menu mistakes to the server/cashier in the hopes of helping a future guest.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Depends if you like the place and want to come back again. Or indeed if you have the time to do a good deed for others. Power to you good sir. I try to do the same.

    I just don't sweat the small stuff myself. I'm not a vegan or someone with allergies/sensitivities. Power to anyone who wants to be a strict vegan, but I'm just arguing unless you have dietary health reasons, when it comes to minor mistakes, a bit of flexibility just takes the tension away. You aren't a bad person if you're not a perfect vegan every meal and nobody (including yourself) should hold it against you if you just eat what's served, whether a restaurant or friends house.

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Sounds like Dad's heart is in the right place.

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  • [–] 75 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    I remember hearing a dunk on vegans a while back that went “how do you know someone’s vegan? they’ll tell you.”

    but in my experience it’s more like “how do you know someone hates vegans? they’ll tell you.”

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  • [–] 45 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Of course vegans will tell you, it’s a dietary restriction.

    If you’re even halfway intimate with someone, you’ll likely share a meal or cook for them.

    I’m not even vegan, but this particular phrase annoys me hahaha.

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  • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Its a catch all punch down cliche for anything where people are trying to improve themselves or the world around them. See crossfit or Linux as other major examples. Its often that they see someone being passionate about something and mocking them for it.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You think linux people DON'T mock others for using windows? Normally in this situation I'd advise you to go use Lemmy for an hour, but...well....here we are, and you still hold that view.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    The example is that people mock Linux users with the phrase "How do you know someone uses Linux? Don't worry, they'll tell you!"

    That says nothing about how Linux users treat others, only how they are used as fodder for people with low self-esteem.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago*

    how do you know someone’s vegan? they’ll tell you

    That statement reads to me the same as “how do you know someone has food allergies? They’ll tell you.”

    EDIT: Just to be clear, I know that allergies are different than boycotts. If the girl could get anaphylactic shock from a drop of milk, the dad would be justified in reacting that way. However, in both cases, it makes sense to inform people that you can’t/won’t eat something.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I think it’s a lot like any group, religion is a good example. I don’t mind that my best friend is religious. I’ll even wait to start eating and bow my head so he can say a prayer. Because I love and respect him but also it’s just the decent human thing to do. I don’t push my atheism on him and he doesn’t push his religion on me. There are religious people and atheists that I can’t stand. There’s vegans and non vegans I can’t stand. In general I try to remind myself that it’s usually the annoying minority I can’t stand I remember the most and isn’t reflective of the group as a whole. With most things generally.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    The one time it's completely appropriate to tell people you are vegan is when they ask what you want to eat...

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    Person: "Vegans won't shut up about being vegan"

    Vegan: embarrassed sigh

    Person: "They're constantly telling me about it."

    Vegan: hiding behind something

    Person: "I just don't get it! They've got leather clothes. Where do they think wool comes from? Protein is nutrious! Are they too good for eggs?!"

    Vegan: Slinking out the back door

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    That girl has to shut up about her veganism no one cares but she constantly brings it up. /s

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I swear, the whole "You know if someone is a vegan because they'll be sure to tell you" thing is a total myth. Never seen it once in my life.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    2010s, OMG they were everywhere. It was just a thing. Veganism became super trendy and people hopped on the bandwagon. Now that it's not cool anymore, most of them have hopped onto another bandwagon or have aged out of chasing trends altogether. But they're always out there. Right now, I hear a lot about K-Pop, Formula 1, and... third places. That last one catches me off guard because I have a related degree and when I was in school the concept was relatively obscure, so it catches me off guard, but in a good way (I work in a museum which charges for entry).

    Anyway, eventually enough pretentious attention-seekers hop on the bandwagon and annoy enough people that they become the subject of ridicule. They move to the next thing, and the OGs get to be the butt of the joke for a generation. It blows.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    Sounds more like a teenager problem than a vegan problem

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    Vegans aren't a problem. Why would you care about what another person chooses not to eat?

    Holier-than-thou vegans with pamphlet level arguments they force upon everybody are a problem.

    Thankfully there aren't too many of those around. Less than Jehova's Witnesses, at least.

    It does seem like America in particular has a cult of people hating on vegans, and I gotta ask; why do you think you're better than them, if you're expressing the same attitude as the worst kinds of vegans?

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    A lot of the vegan haters are uncomfortable with the moral issues with meat consumption and rather than seriously work through their feelings and try to figure out where they stand they just mock those who make them uncomfortable and conflate them to the most annoying of the group.

    Very similar to people who haven't worked out their religious trauma hating on even decent religious folks

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  • [+] [S] -15 points 8 months ago* (18 children)

    moral issues with meat consumption

    Why do you assume omnivores have any "moral issues with meat"? Your comment implies that vegan diet is somehow morally supreme, which is an utter rubbish. It is a dietary choice, the same as eating bread or not.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    They seem to imply that in their experience omnivores do indeed have such moral qualms with eating meat. That does not mean that they think that is objectively the case or the case for everyone.

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  • [+] 13 points 8 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    I love this description of morality, but am curious about your opinion on the arbitrary decisions comment: do you feel that cultural tuning (often underpinned by cultural heritage and available food options) is an invalid way to select "acceptable" meats? No judgement, your comment just got me thinking

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  • [+] 8 points 8 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    I see you got into an extensive discussion with the other poster, I'm looking forward to digging into that.

    While it hasn't shifted my own opinion, I want to thank you for a very well elucidated commentary, this was extremely insightful and responded to my question well. I sense the passion underpinning it.

    I will definitely take a look into the Peter Singer article. Thank you again, take care :)

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  • [+] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    I hear you! Food is an intensely personal and political topic, I can see how ppl get up in arms about it. I was genuinely curious about the phrasing of your comment, and you shared a very logical breakdown of what was behind it - it was well reasoned and you used solid parallels. I actually enjoyed it!

    Absolutely, I'll keep your offer in mind once I've read the article - it's always nice to find a considered fellow lemming :) Cheers!

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Not the person to whom you were replying, but I appreciated your comment.

    These are really fun philosophical topics, that I've enjoyed talking about in person several times. I don't think that human rights are universal, because I don't personally believe that morality exists external to culture.

    If these behaviours were human rights violations in, say, Denmark, then they do not cease to be human rights violations just because they are taking place in a different country with different cultural attitudes.

    This implies that certain cultures' mores are more correct than others', which probably feels right to you because those countries' norms align more closely with yours. I feel the same way, but I don't think it's a FACT.

    I absolutely also agree that FGM is bad, but being a human rights violation in Denmark doesn't ipso facto prove that it's true. I.e. in the U.S. it's now illegal for many industries/schools/orgs to promote DEI, but that doesn't mean that other countries should do the same. I'm sure Denmark has some bad takes too, though I don't know the country well enough to think of any.

    Just starting an argument online for fun while on the throne, don't take me too seriously, friend!

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  • [+] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Is there no sense in which we can say, actually no: a culture in which slavery is okay is a flawed culture; it is better to have a culture that does not promote this sort of thing?

    I would certainly prefer that the arc of time bend towards people and the environment having more protection/freedom/rights than the other way around, but without an external directive I don't believe that it's meaningful to use labels like "correct" in this context. For your specific examples, I would rather say something like "Nazi Germany and the Confederacy were below the contemporaneous and current commonly-held threshold for human rights." That's a self-important mouthful, which I already regret typing out.

    Any evaluation of another culture is necessarily done through the lens of the evaluator's opinions and preferences, which are (by default) a product of their home culture. I hope I'm explaining my view clearly; I certainly am not arguing that those societies were not abominable places to live, led by awful people.

    This implies that certain cultures’ mores are more correct than others’, which probably feels right to you because those countries’ norms align more closely with yours.

    As a vegan, I don’t think is the case! I think our cultures norms around animals does not align closely what feels right to me at all.

    ...

    For example there some Indigenous or Inuit cultures in rural Canada or Greenland that still partly live their traditional ways of life. I think those cultures are actually better than ours.

    I feel like these two statements are in contradiction? You state that some traditional cultures are better because they align with your beliefs, which was my argument. Again, I'm not saying that those cultures are NOT an improvement over my own in this particular regard, based on my own view of morality, just that my opinion on the subject is my own and not "The Correct Opinion".

    Again, I mean absolutely no disrespect and am just trying to stretch my smooth and rarely-used brain a bit. Feel free to simply ignore me.

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  • [+] [S] -11 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    And, there you go, as per the original comment above: "Holier-than-thou vegans with pamphlet level arguments they force upon everybody are a problem."

    🙄

    You are only "more moral" on the same level as Jehova Witnesses are somehow "more moral" than other religions.

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  • [+] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [+] [S] -15 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    By quoting a pamphlet 🙄 And I don't remember asking you anything.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    I forgot that dragon roll is a real thing for a second, and thought that the joke was implying eating dragon is vegan.

    Also, doesn't a dragon roll usually have shrimp in it?

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Every dragon roll I have ever had has had lobster and at least one other fish in it. No cheese 🤮

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    People always talk about pineapple on pizza (I don't approve either), but I think cheese in sushi is even worse. It just ruins it.

    Shredded tuna too. I love fish sushi, but I'd take a veggie one over a roll filled with cooked, shredded tuna. It doesn't work.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    In my experience it's eel that's the 'dragon'. Although one place around here has fucking chicken in it.

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    [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Spot on for my Dad. Don't tell parents anything at all about personal things anymore. I'm not even vegan by any means. They just sneak lactose into everydamnthing as a sweetener and I prefer not taking earth-shattering shits every time I somehow miss it and being in pain when I wake up.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Hahaha, my parents do this too. I don't get what perverse satisfaction they get from it

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Is dad being an asshole? Or is dad being a dad and intentionally embarassing her?

    His face and volume suggest asshole, like he's actually causing a scene.

    But I could see this as having been a much less loud/angry encounter, with dad basically giving his daughter shit by being as dramatic as she is at home. And this whole encounter is being told through the daughters perspective, who inflated the scene/comic.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    The first comic with the word "vegan" I've seen maybe ever. Well done this cartoonist.

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