The left wants to squeeze the rich until money comes out. Centrist republicans don't.
That's why those controlling the Democratic party will not save us. The left needs to take it from them.
The left wants to squeeze the rich until money comes out. Centrist republicans don't.
That's why those controlling the Democratic party will not save us. The left needs to take it from them.
Democrats should have promised to tax the rich and use that money to build a new Third Reich to appease both sides 🙄
I wish the Democrats had the balls to use that messaging. Instead, it's us leftists trying to convince the radical centrists like Cassandra of Troy.
Not so much anymore. It's pretty clear this is what they want.
The moment they capitulated and caved on the shutdown, all to save themselves and their rich friend's the horror of losing money over the holidays or being unable to fly to some exotic place on the same runways they refuse to pay taxes to fund, the Democrats proved what everyone already knew. They're controlled opposition. They'll fight with everything they have to prevent a progressive candidate from getting anywhere near the system while allowing fascism to kick down the door with lip-service opposition.
Before Biden, the performance was believable, or at least palatable. After allowing tRump to skirt consequences for January 6, and even allowing him to be on the ballot at all, it was clear there was no intention of meaningful opposition or change. Until and unless we can remove these legislative dinosaurs and get progressives or working people into positions of power, no change will happen. I fear that with the wealth inequalities and immense power wielded by a few, it may have become too late to contain this beast. Nothing can save this system.
before biden
You weren't around for 2000 then?
If we could get our own candidates we could take half of the non partisan right voters. Most of them just vote to reject the democrats not endorse the republicans, and are low information. A true populist would take their loyalties, especially now with the America First crowd rejected and scorned by the party. It's supposed champion being led around by the party starting a dozen wars at a time.
I completely agree. Zohran is a great example - everyone loves him, even Trump. That's what a principled and charismatic leftist politician looks like. I wish we had more people like Zohran coming into leadership positions in the Democratic party.
Unfortunately, some people are using bad strategies to try and get more Zohrans. Instead of showing up before the primaries and promoting leftist politicians in competition with moderates, they show up after the primaries and attack moderate politicians in competition with fascists. The former is how you get leftists in power. The latter is how you get fascists in power. The two look the same to those who are... less politically adept. But in truth, they have very different effects.
At the same time, republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024. Influencing the sheep, and wasting and frustrating the left, to help keep a candidate they can beat to run against them. The oligarchy obviously wanting also to keep their license from being revoked, fearing mild reform more than putting an absolute leader in charge, arrogantly thinking they can control the monster they've reared on the right.
You are going around blaming those that didn't pretend the democrats were doing a good job; and were going to win; and that they would do what is needed after they won, rather than those that saddled us with the doomed to fail, constitutionally unwilling to do what is needed candidate. By the time they get their hack "moderate" coronated, we already lost. There was no situation whereby the democrats would continually win elections selling out more every term and spiting their left base indefinitely while being unpopular and not reforming and not enforcing the law against republicans openly working to fix elections.
Biden didn't even protect the voting officials from death threats. There was zero chance him or his hand picked replacement were going to stop fascists. Once Kamala got in, it was over. I knew it, you should've known it. Which is not saying how I did or didn't vote so don't give me the typical emotional accusations without evidence of voting to force the person on the defensive. The question is that the republic is doomed the moment we get these democrats as candidates.
I recently played a very fun game of Diplomacy, which is an old board game about international politics. I was playing as Italy, and it was in My interest to keep both Turkey and Russia as weak as possible while I repelled a French invasion, so that once France was no longer a threat, I could conquer both. So what I did is, I formed alliances with both Turkey and Russia, who were new players, and rather than commit troops to aid either side, I gave them both advice on how to outmaneuver the other. If either of them looked about to win, I would give the other one better advice. It worked great, and the Sultan of Turkey was shocked at My betrayal, since I'd helped him so much. He didn't realise I was playing both sides.
republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024
I hadn't heard that before, but I'm willing to believe it. I also believe that right wing botfarms are promoting fringe left wing movements that attack the Democrats, like Jill Stein's Greens. I think they're playing both sides, helping amplify the most stalemate-y versions of both our arguments, to keep the American Left opposed to the Democrats.
I'm a bit smarter and more experienced than the Turkish Sultan in My diplomacy game. I know who the biggest threat is. The Republicans in the real world are the Italy of My game. The biggest threat. I, as an anarcho-communist, are willing to stand by the Democrats, help them beat Trump, and stab them in the back right afterwards with a communist revolution. But yelling from the rooftops about how much I hate them, while Trump is still in power, is not part of that plan. My plan involves subtlety.
I was saying that the right aligned influence operations pretend to be democrats and help get the moderates the nominations because they can beat them to be clear your quote makes it sound like I said the opposite.
My point though, by the time it gets to the general election, it's already over. There is zero percent chance of stopping the fascists with them running the opposition. Moreover people that stick their necks out for democracy get them chopped off even if the democrats win an election in spite of themselves, as Biden squeaked out a win against a president with 40 percent approval hated more than any man in the country by half the population.
As such, it's not the fault of those that didn't vote democratic, it would change nothing, fascists were going to win the moment they got establishment candidates in there.
Beyond that, whose fault is it people voted third party? Those establishment figures do nothing but spite the left. People made clear they won't vote for democrats if they get continually worse, if they continue to betray issues we care about, and they openly spite us at every turn. We knew they wouldn't get those votes if they continued to be sold out hacks, and they did it anyway, knowing what the republicans were, and what the electorate was.
As such, it's wrong-headed to blame voters. Keeping a doomed to fail strategy despite knowing it can't win negates any criticism they have of voters for not betraying their own interests and supporting candidates owned by the rich that openly spite them worse every cycle. They made clear they won't support them if they do x or don't do y, and they did x and didn't do y. If they got the support anyway, they would continue to get worse, already further right, further sold out to big money, than George HW Bush let alone Nixon. Biden really was giving George W Bush a run for his money.
It is wrongheaded to blame voters, and belies being susceptible to the buck passing arguments the establishment uses to stay in power to fail again. Don't fall for it.
whose fault is it people voted third party?
I don't think that's a productive way to think about things. I mean, I could say "It's the billionaire's fault capitalism is destroying our climate" and just go home, safe in the knowledge I didn't start the fire... but that doesn't actually help anyone. So I don't deal in blame.
Blame is Gefühlspolitik - politics based on emotion. I love Diplomacy because it teaches Realpolitik - politics based on what the optimal move is to make in the current situation.
In My current situation, I'm not talking to Joe Biden. I can't change Joe's mind. I'm talking to you. I can maybe change your mind, if I'm smart enough. I can convince you to adapt your strategy to the situation you find yourself in, to try and buy a few more years before ICE comes for My family. That's My goal. A few more years for the revolution to grow, a few more years for people to escape.
Do you want a few more years? And given the current circumstances of the situation, what does your logic and cunning tell you is the best way to get them?
On the contrary, without laying blame the same people that failed stay in power to do it again.
You are basically saying don't look backward but forward. But not forward but forever twirling, twirling twirling!
We need a clear eyed view of the situation, and to employ reason, and reason decrees without qualification that the establishment is doomed to fail, that they aren't popular, not trying to be popular, and so unable to reliably win at all. That if they do get in will not fix, will not restore, will not enforce the laws against the connected, will continue to allow all captured government agencies to remain so, continue to allow corporations to cheat us, etc.
Can't win, won't be popular, not trying, they quash popular reformists that is their raison de etre. They refuse to address root causes of problems, ie the rich stealing our lunch.
So you're saying blame is part of Realpolitic? Interesting, but surely it cannot be the entirety of your plan? What's your idea for preventing or lessening the severity of the trans genocide that's coming?
That is not at all what I sais.
Ah. Then I have no idea what you're talking about.
I think we should be organising mutual aid networks and teaching self-defence skills so that we can mount an effective militia against the fascist police state, while co-opting the state apparatus with progressive politicians and voting against fascists in the general elections to delay their complete takeover. I think that's an awfully clear and concise vision of resistance.
I can't argue with that.
The dems are worthless and without real leadership it's hopeless. We can have leadership outside the party, until we take the party, but we can't stop the organized interests of the fascists/plutocrats without that leadership, and organization.
Fascism it is I guess. I wish things could be different, but the liberals didn't want to compromise. Oh well.
Well no. Compromising with the left risks communism. Letting the right get everything they want; that's just fine.
I can't tell which group you're calling the liberals who don't compromise. Is it the left who won't vote the Republicans out or is it the DNC?
Big money lefties and those that support the genocide Israel is committing.
Is that really left and or liberal if it is neither progressive nor respects human rights? If anything Israel genocide is a conservative centrist policy.
That's fair to think if you're not from the US, but many Democrats are considered left here and they're really not. They may support the gays, minorities, or equality of women in some respects, but they're right-wing in almost every other way.
They may support the gays, minorities, or equality of women in some respects
Until they get any pushback at all from conservatives.
If anything Israel genocide is a conservative centrist policy.
And for some reason, it wasn't a winning issue with a party full of leftists and liberals. But conservatives like you loved it so much you would rather lose to trump that suggest that it stop.
Nobody who cared about a single Palestinian life should ever have considered allowing Trump to win for even a single moment. Nobody who protested the dems in the general actually cared about Palestine unless there was a serious and major disinformation campaign pressuring them to do so.
This nation's official stance went from "end the war and bring peace to the middle east" to Pete Hegest as Secretary of War declaring "death or exodus" for every Palestinian.
Your argument can't see past your own hand. By endorsing a party continually getting worse every cycle, the party is guaranteeing the republicans would win, making fighting for democrats a waste of time and energy, they refuse to do what is needed to win, and stop the fascist political machine.
We knew they couldn't win as their only selling point being better than the other guy, while getting worse every cycle. Not just on foreign policy, on selling us out to the plutocracy, not changing anything back, that they see themselves as good cop to R bad cop is inescapable, apparently thinking election theft projections are all performative. In denial that Republicans aren't playing bad cop, but Hitler.
On foreign policy specifically, Biden kicked off that round by endorsing veritable blood libel, claiming to have seen the evidence of 40 beheaded babies by Hamas, a patently false allegation, and never corrected himself. All for a country working to sabotage him, with blackmail on half of our politicians and businessman.
There is, and never was, any way out from the abyss of fascism, with these democrats running the opposition. The only path is getting new leadership.
The only thing that has gotten worse every cycle is livelihood in the USA because the DNC have been left out of power for over 13 years.
The DNC keep moving left but the campaigns against them by foreign powers and billionaires gets stronger every day.
the DNC have been left out of power for over 13 years.
keep repeating that lie. They had 50 and CHOSE not to wield the majority we gave them.
What? The DNC, moving left? What are you, [insert phrase denoting delusional/dishonest]? The DNC, DCCC, and the rest, are owned by and run for the oligarchy, they are The Enemy. They single handedly doomed us, we knew what the Republcans were, and trusted them to be the opposition to it. I fucking told you too. Admit it, so we can get real leaders with popular reform and not fail in our last fucking chance to take it back in the succession, before elections are fixed too tight to ever take it back.
The DNC last election proposed an unrealized gains tax that had conservatives howling about the destruction of "the economy". Biden's admin protected trans soldiers and gay marriage, had the most LGBT+ Cabinet in US History. He pardoned and commuted over 2500+ marijuana convictions.
The DNC now makes the DNC in 2008 look like Republicans.
No one outside the flock believes they are doing an acceptable job. We are being gouged from every angle, paying more for less, corporations continue to consolidate and use unfair practices against us and anticompetitive behavior and engage in illegal trusts. Regulators, and courts, including the justice department and state courts, are captured by industry. (Collectively captured in a complicated tiered leasing system.)
We are losing rights, the police state grows more powerful, doing end runs around the 4th in mass buying data broker information they don't protect us from being abused by; the 5th is still ignored as a rule in asset forfeitures, the 10th in every other thing the federal government does.
Money doesn't go as far. We are told our money has never had more purchasing power, while that's clearly not true, and a job has never in living memory bought less than it does now.
We all know it. The democrats run as the status quo, 3 elections in a row, in a time of anger and upheaval, and visible rot showing through to the surface of the body politic. The republicans have been able to run as reform as a result. Either democrats channel the anger of voters being screwed, or republicans will misdirect it. We should all know that all three elections running. But your ivy league suits tell you we didn't sell out enough, and look how progressive the democrats are on x or y, ignoring amongst other things rich people stealing our lunch, at most subsidizing us buying a second lunch if we qualify and genuflect to the means test, never addressing the people stealing our lunches.
Nobody who cared about a single Palestinian life should ever have considered allowing Trump to win for even a single moment.
Yeah. But democrats wanted genocide so badly that they preferred trump over telling netanyahu no. Lord knows you did.
They're gonna run a Schumer/Clinton ticket in 2028.
Nah it'll be Newsom because they think his online precense spamming will draw in young voters

ha ha, don't even say it. My pessimistic predictions that after biden they would force kamala that would lose that I made way back before biden was even in turned out to be correct. Once again the dems did worse than I knew they would, even though I knew they would do worse than I thought, they still did worse than that, which I knew they would.
Are we running numbers? I got $5 on Newsom being somewhere in the ticket
Democrats have been moving to the right with their program like someone paid them to chase republicans on that stage
PugJesus in a nutshell
Crazy how Lemmy is still small enough to have famous/infamous commenters. I wonder if I have a rep? I feel like I comment a lot but probably nothing compared to them
I know I've got rep for pissing off tankies and tankie adjacent, so I'm doing it right.
Is that shithead still around? I thought he might have died
I got into it with him just a few days back, don't recall what it was over. I'm not a fan.
The dude's the most well respected anti-Tankie anarchist on the platform, I don't expect him to go away any time soon.
You call everyone you don't like a tankie.
I call people Tankies when they promote the interests of Russian and Chinese militaristic dictatorship and expansion. They're here on the Fediverse in large numbers because it's a small part of their many well funded psyops such as Chinese run TikTok and operations on FaceBook and YouTube going back over well over a decade.
I admit I may have declared a couple of false positives, but probably less times than I hit the nail on the head.
I call people Tankies when
When they are to your left about anything at all.
None of the people I call tankies are left. All tankies are conservatives.
All tankies are conservatives.
Yes, yes. Everyone to your left is all the way to your right. But not like the actual right. Wouldn't want to compromise with them.
The actual right. They're MAGA, not even basically MAGA but Tankies endorsed Trump directly.
The actual right.
If they're the actual right, you'd capitulate to them and call it compromise.
Tankies endorsed Trump directly.
Did they?
The DNC as a whole is consistently opposed to the GOP, congress has never been more of a ideological partisan divide than it is today.
Yes
The DNC as a whole is consistently opposed to the GOP
On paper. In campaign ads.
congress has never been more of a ideological partisan divide than it is today.
Remember this when democrats cave on ICE and give Republicans their DHS funding.
Yes
I mean, when you interpret any criticism of any centrist as a direct endorsement of trump like you do, maybe. But that's just as dishonest as your repeated shameless lie about only having 48 senators.
Progressives. Supporters of a system in which all people are equal and autonomous but under the requirement that all harm one inflicts on another is averted via peaceful resolutions. Industries get regulated and wealth gets taxed. Prisoners never work unless it aids in their reform. The environment gets protected. All real power is held solely by the citizenship as a whole and an evenly spread body of representatives with checks and balances.
Examples of progressives: DNC, most of Europe, doctors without borders, MLK Jr, etc. I'm especially fond of Switzerland.
Opponents: Conservatives; Dictatorships, Fascists, Russia, China, racial and theological supremacists, proxy wars in the Middle east and South America where aforementioned states prop up puppet states leading to infinite indirect conflicts between the east and west. They even run election interference and psyops in the USA in order to weaken democracy and elect people like Trump. They wish to return to the old days of Autocracy and a clear divide between the elites and the peasants.
If you support capitalism, as do all of your examples of “leftists”, you are right-wing.
The guy's a propaganda machine pretending to be something on the left, doing what the tankie do, for the west, so a certified Wankie.
It’s accurate for sure.
Democrats made a failed attempt to acquire a potentially valuable resource to their cause, Americans who vote consistently.
People who don’t vote or donate to their party are literally worthless in their eyes.
I vote consistently because I don't want fascism running the government. They take consistent voters for granted. They should court the disenfranchised with progressive policies but that runs counter to their donor handlers' goals so they pander to the right more and more instead.
People who don’t vote or donate BIG MONEY to their party are literally worthless in their eyes.
Ftfy
There's no different between appealing to far-right issues, and popularising far-right issues.
Ultimately all of politics is about what you're popularising. There are only the issues.
We need nationwide Ranked Choice Voting because I agree that many Democrats are far from perfect and, in an ideal world, I would love to vote for a third party or independent candidate, the reality is that; unless you happen to live in a state with Ranked Choice Voting (Maine, for example) you might indirectly be helping a Republican win. As imperfect as many Democrats are, they are usually far better and usually more sane than the Republicans.
They support genocide. That's not "imperfect," it's reprehensible.
That's how Trump treats his MAGA base.
That's how ALL political parties treat their base. "What, you gonna vote for the OTHER guy?"
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