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[–] 43 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Since lithium prices crashed, sodium batteries' main advantage of being cheaper has vanished.

    They're also lower capacity for the same weight.

    The best application is where cold might be an issue, and weight isn't. So, for large storage. Or, where cold is always an issue, such as in the Arctic.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    This is assuming an economy of scale doesn't make sodium batteries cheaper once again because of the ease of working with industrial quantities of sodium as opposed to lithium

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    My Lithium solar batteries can't charge today while the sun is out shining brightly, because it's below freezing and I don't have battery heaters installed. They're in an outdoor shed so they can't burn down my house.

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  • [+] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I've learned a lot from reading RV forums and stuff like that. It's common to install DC-powered battery heating pads that run on relatively low watts to keep batteries warm enough to charge. I'll probably do that too.

    To keep a person warm, you'd probably need more power like at least 250-700 watts to run a heat lamp or small space heater. But that is easily doable with solar and batteries now.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    There isn't enough lithium available on this planet to power a technological civilization. No such problem with abundant sodium. Also, I'd rather not have a lithium chemistry battery powering my home, because it's a fire hazard.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There isn’t enough lithium available on this planet to power a technological civilization.

    of course there is, and everyone is assuming lithium won't be recycled.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Why do you assume economies of scale don't work on sodium ion batteries? We are just launching the first commercial products, which indeed is a hard time for new technology and sodium does need to pass the hurdle of "get to scale", but sodium has the potential to be dirt cheap once fully scaled and realized.

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    [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    175Wh is within striking distance of LFPs. That's really promising if they can start mass producing them for EVs

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  • 13 comments in c/futurology@futurology.today view that post
    [–] 35 points 9 months ago

    Never mind vehicles, I want a slightly unreasonable number of those batteries for my house. At those sorts of prices you stop having to work out your energy budget to spec batteries, just approximate it, double it, and call it good.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    It’s the performant at -40 that intrigues me. In Canada, there are many regions where an electric vehicle just isn’t viable. If you need to drive to a rural area in the middle of January, good luck. A frozen lithium battery makes either for a long trip with multiple recharges, or not working entirely.

    A new battery that can withstand the cold would definitely convince some anti-EV folks around here.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    You still need tons of heat for the cabin. At those temperatures the waste heat from the engine is actually not wasted since the meatbags inside need to be warm.

    It would hurt range a lot but for commuting that's probably still fine, and no worries about heating up the car more than having the windows defrosted before you drive it.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Even at half efficiency in my EV in the winter, I'm still beating any car at 40 mpg dollar for dollar in what I pay in electricity rates.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Yes for most uses EVs are more cost efficient and only suck for long trips, which most people don't do often if at all. Makes you wish for actually good train services, and maybe a comeback of train services where you can ship your car before the meat bags.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Our 2025 Ioniq 6 gets 530km in summer, but about 350 (or less ) in winter. Drop that by about 60km if the heat is on full.

    The real problem is that charging stations are sometimes 100km apart, many "pumps" are not working, most max out at 50kW (our car can handle up to 350kW), and because of all these factors, you might have to wait an hour or two for other cars to finish before even starting your charge, and then charging can take 90 minutes.

    Cold weather like we've been having (-25°C or colder some nights) makes this even worse.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Good to hear from someone who actually does this. Considering how big and empty Canada is I don't see how there's ever going to be fast chargers unless freight uses them, rail freight is way better for road safety and efficiency though (even with diesel locomotives, it uses 10-20% of the fuel road vehicles do).

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I'm not sure I believe they've gotten anywhere close to anger yet.

    I'm excited for all new battery tech, we will drag people kicking and screaming into a safer less polluting future.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's thing like this that make unsure when to pull the EV trigger.

    I'm currently shopping for a used EV, 2022 and newer, but I'm not sure if I should wait a couple more years and let the tech keep developing.

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    [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    The energy density is still quite low. These appear to be for short city transport, especially with such a small capacity. Sodium promises even higher energy density than current NCA, so these batteries are very early in their R&D journey. Still, cool to finally see real world use of sodium batteries. Once we start seeing batteries with real world range of 1,000km+, I think we see mass adoption of EVs. It would eliminate the last major roadblock for most consumers: range anxiety.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I love seeing new battery tech but that doesn’t mean I’m going to buy an electric car.

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