EU next, please.
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As they should, stupid over complicated and absolutely failure ridden unnecessary design. kinda like this poorly worded statement
Musk nearly bankrupted Tesla when he insisted that the door handles must be flush after stealing the company from its original founders.
I mean, "stealing" is a strong word. Elon bought them out, and they're both enjoying a net worth in the hundreds of million.
What's more disturbing about Elon's tenure as head of the company is how social media manipulation, insider trading, and blatant SEC violations can pump a company's valuation into the stratosphere.
Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard both continued to contribute advances in engineering that far exceeded the Tesla project. But they'll never have the kind of easy credit Elon secured through politics and media manipulation. So don't expect to see them included among the ranks of "billionaire" any time soon.
"Bought them out" is a weak word too though. He placed loyal people on the board and had them vote to give him control of the company.
And now he has been having them vote to give him absurd unseen before "salaries"
He placed loyal people on the board and had them vote to give him control of the company.
He could place loyalists on the board because he bought a controlling interest in the company.
And now he has been having them vote to give him absurd unseen before “salaries”
The latest compensation package has virtually unattainable sales targets. And the compensation is almost entirely in equity that assumes a monumental increase in stock valuation.
If he can manage it, I'd be tempted to say he earned it, except I know he'll only "hit" the target by lying and market manipulation that will collapse as soon as he hits his mark.
Like having space x buy thousands of cyber cucks?
Or donating those shitty dangerous trucks to the Vegas police?
Or when his Canadian dealerships sold themselves hundreds of cars on the last week of government subsidies?
He’s gonna cheat to get his trillion, brag about having the biggest number, and try and fuck the country even more to keep him powerful. These robber barons need to be stopped and imprisoned bodies they can harm the rest of us any more.
He’s gonna cheat to get his trillion
He's going to try. Even then, the bar is higher than just nibbling at the margins. And everything is stacked on the shoulders of an overall positive outlook for the US economy in total. He can't insource all his car sales in any practical sense. And he can't use options markets to outrun the perpetual gaggle of Tesla bears nipping at his heels. He also can't reliably expect Congress to bail him out when he's made this many enemies inside both the White House and Congress.
That's not to say he won't get a piece of paper with "$1T" written on it from his company at some point. But nothing in the Tesla financials suggests he will have anywhere to cash it.
Yeah, thanks for clarifying my intent. I’m pretty sure he’s going to ride whatever is left of this AI bubble in finance to get his $1T number. He’ll never ever be able to cash out, but I don’t think he cares about that, he wants the power that comes with the number. It’d be nice to see the lending market smarten up and tell him to pound sand. I guess he has to fail for them to stop though. Money talks louder then Nazi salutes.
I worry he’s going to fuck out space industry in the process of fleecing NASA though. Hopefully there are enough adults in charge to stop that, but until the midterms (if they happen) I don’t think congress will be doing anything but infighting about the speaker position and hand wringing over the expected red losses.
It’d be nice to see the lending market smarten up and tell him to pound sand.
Because the stock valuation has inflated so far beyond the company's actual revenues, its been pushed into a number of major index funds and become a "must buy" for 401ks and other retail investment accounts. This creates a kind-of self-fulfilling overvaluation as a result. I don't think there's any real market mechanism that will devalue Tesla in the near future. Kicking the Tesla tentpole means shaking up the entire S&P 500. Even the mega-hedge funds with the ability to do it don't have a strong monetary incentive to try.
At the same time, the kind of stock growth Elon is expected to deliver in the next five years is astronomical relative to their core position. Either he's going to Tulip Mania his company again or he's going to fall far short of the mark.
I worry he’s going to fuck out space industry in the process of fleecing NASA though.
NASA's been a contractor's boondoggle since at least Reagan. The Challenger Disaster can be linked directly back to an outsourcing scandal that was covered up and buried under Reagan in order to keep Thiokol Chemical Corporation (now a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman) financially insulated.
I would argue that SpaceX exists precisely because NASA has become a budget of money to be siphoned from. The Space Industry was fucked in the 80s and never really recovered, leading to our reliance on Soyuz rockets for much of the Bush Era and creating an environment at Boeing so toxic that we've largely lost our ability to do space flight domestically.
For all the talk of Moon bases and Mars missions, it seems the real money in aerospace is just spewing up endless waves of cheap disposable satellites for commercial communications. That's going to be the limit of US space technology for the foreseeable future.
I’m sure most mutual funds are invested in musk companies, but unless they’re terrible hedge funds or something none of them should have more than a few percent in them. I was more speaking of the lenders who enable Musk’s bullshit like buying Twitter or fucking around with our elections.
And yeah, I guess I should have said finish off our space industry, but yeah it’s been screwed since the shuttle era I guess.
none of them should have more than a few percent in them
Tesla makes up 2.3% of the S&P 500 and 4.5% of NASDAQ. Then you have business downstream of Tesla - Luminar Technologies sells the majority of it's LIDAR systems to Tesla, Hertz's EV fleet is plurality Tesla, Panasonic co-owns Gigafactory 1.
I was more speaking of the lenders who enable Musk’s bullshit like buying Twitter or fucking around with our elections.
They do it so they can be first in the door for future IPOs. JP Morgan has been a close ally of Musk's for decades. And he's repaid them with numerous opportunities to resell their debt. The Twitter loan was a small price to pay by comparison.
With any luck Elon with be in jail in a few years when Democrats try to prove we shouldn't abandon this socioeconomic system entirely.
That would require a backbone not seen in democrats in generations. I'd bet money on him being a free man and never seeing the inside of a cell.
That will never, ever, ever happen. Dems love an oligarch just as much, if not more, than republicans. China is the only country that prosecutes wealthy criminals.
China is the only country that prosecutes wealthy criminals.
Unfortunately they also lockup anyone they just kind of don't like for any arbitrary reason.
I was pointing out a difference in the way America does things. If I started listing things both have in common, the list would literally never end. Besides, the similarity is surface-level. China’s economy isn’t propped up by for-profit prisons
Well, then I hope you guys are ready for a revolution unless you're fine with a Blade Runner esc hellscape.
Don't worry, we won't get a Blade Runner-esc hellscape.
Because Blade Runner for a movie had to give us a fascinating world that was interesting that even as a hellscape there was a "Man, it'd be cool to be there."
No, our hellscape is going to be more like how fast food restaurants all look the same now, the corporate architecture version of taupe agreed to by committee.
It’s already fucked up that he legally gets to call himself a co-founder for simply being on the board.
I have long observed that moving parts, particularly involving motors, are destined to give me grief as a car ages. The difference is that little motorized interior luxuries aren't going to prevent people from pulling my unconscious body out of a burning wreck, while these door handles have for dozens of people
Next can we outlaw touchscreens? I'm guessing they are far more dangerous in the end.
i think often about that GM and Volvo paid Virginia Tech a lot of money to help them design a safe touchscreen infotainment center and after years of research the researchers basically reached the conclusion "there's no safe way to put a touchscreen in a car" and now we all have touchscreens in our cars
I mean, there's also no safe touchscreen on a mobile phone, and one would think a main personal mobile communication device should have the least disruptable user interface possible.
A stylus makes some sense, it's a more convenient tool for drawing on a screen. But touchscreens must die.
I'm trying to dial someone or do anything at all in a dark place, I have to look with my eyes at a burning screen (notably with some crappy flat design of all UI elements, as is custom today) and try to hit it with my fingers. My fingers notably come from factory without backlight or auto-aim.
I could just remember which key is which, and rely on my tactile feeling to find them.
I'm trying to do anything at all in frosty weather (that kind when you feel like scratching your skin, normal winter, minus 10 Celsius is enough to feel that), I have to take off my glove and try to hit whatever with my fingers which become obviously clumsier under such temperatures.
And I can't simultaneously do something and look at the display, because I'm poking my fingers at that display to do something!
And it's easier to do something you didn't intend.
I hope everything with a touchscreen dies as a consumer good, similarly to young nuclear scientist kits for toddlers, asbestos roof tiles, lead paint, you get the idea. Some things are bad.
Good, it's such an incredibly stupid design. Literally no one was bothered by a slight handle for better UX.
Can China ban retina burning headlights, rear facing floodlights and aftermarket exhausts now?
Don't ban aftermarket exhausts completely, just the ones that optimize for loudness or dirtier air.
I'd like to see devices that detect when a car is running too rich or lean (bad cases I can smell right away, so it should be detectable at a range), along with enforcement and seizing vehicles where they deliberately mess with those, especially if there's a switch or function present that can switch between legal and illegal modes to pass emissions tests and then go back to spewing out unburnt fuel or a much higher number of nitrous oxide compounds.
Is it really that hard to make one of those recessed handles with a mechanical linkage instead of an electric one?
Seems like the real issue is the electric door latch itself, not the style of handle.
Tesla whined about it citing all the crap they’d have to work around in their design in order to make a normal mechanical linkage. Funny how no other upper tier manufacturer has trouble with all the power windows and window power pre-offsetting for interference fits. They manage to have mechanical linkages.
Yeah I'm not shocked the major car company with the least amount of experience in mechanical engineering had that issue.
Give that to a team of 90's Honda engineers and they'd have it done by lunch with a price tag a 1/3rd of the Tesla mechanism.
Oh those Honda engineers would have laughed and laughed. "Aluminum chassis and plastic body support?!" I can hear them say through hysterics.
That doesn't follow. The 3 and y both have mechanical handles that only close flush by a spring for aerodynamics. Literally every manufacturer has copied that in at least one model.
Only the s, x, and CT have retractable handles, and it's mostly Chinese cars that copy that.
They are not mechanical.
You’re both right: this is where we need more precise language
Model 3 and Y, most Teslas, have mechanical handles. However all Teslas have an electronic latch mechanism
Isn’t the CT a button with an electronic door popper? Where did I read that?
These recessed handles usually have some sort of fallback. For me, I don't want rescuers to have a single second of uncertainty of how to open my car. They should be able to quickly yank the door open, not fumble for some recessed/hidden button. Every second counts.
The handles themselves freeze down and won't pop up to allow someone to actually open the door. Freezing rain and sleet and prevent even traditional style handles are known to freeze up and stop working.
Yeah, it's hard. How is it going to come out while there's nothing to grab on to?
E: I dunno who's downvoting me or why. I'm vehemently opposed to electronic door handles of any kind. But if you're going to have door handles that protrude and retract, they're gonna have to necessarily have a motor to push out against ice.
You press on it, tons of Chinese cars already do this.
How does it come out when you press on it?
You press it in and it pops out.
Idk I'm not a mechanical engineer.
The lever point is offset such that when you press on the taller part of the handle, the front pops out and you can pull.
They freeze quite solid in icy conditions. It's really remarkable!
With a fucking spring.
For the model 3 and Y with the mechanical handles you press on one end to get the other to pop out
If it’s iced over, you can press on the other end and there’s a little room to effectively rock it back and forth a bit to break the ice. I live in Massachusetts, I park outside, and this is my third winter with the car, and I’ve only had to do this twice. It worked each time with minimal effort
I have no idea what the model s and x do with the electronic self-presenting handles. They ought to have a defroster or some sort of vibrator to do similar. Not that it would help in an accident
When even China has to ban your product due to safety concerns, you've probably made some seriously bad design choices somewhere along the line.
Must be nice having a functional government
Americans are going to mandate retractable handles in response
I don't think China or the US would be called nice in this regard.
Well, the US is very nice to corporations which is why they’re often left to self regulate, are regulated by former industry insiders, or are barely regulated through fines and settlements
So yeah I suppose in this regard China is not being nice but being nice doesn’t effectively regulate corporations. This is in fact a good example of a functional government doing its job
Your original statement said must be nice as in it must be nice for the governed. Not that the country was being nice. The governments of both countries are complete garbage. Must be nice to have this one thing work is different than either being a functional government for its people.
Well it is in fact nice for the governed when their governments enforce good regulations. I’m not sure what’s in dispute here, do you not think it’s nice to have a proper regulation in place that will be followed?
Your original statement called the US and China not nice so I just followed your grammar logic 🤷♀️
Are you just desperate to have us acknowledge that these countries have serious flaws too?
I apologize if my original statement was not clear, I was also following suit and meant nice for the individual. Essentially I was saying one governmental nicety doesn't make up for the country's govt being a cluster fuck. Having the government perform one thing functional is not the same as a functional government. That was my point.
China and America are perfectly functional governments despite their flaws. Are you just looking for an opportunity to dunk on them?
In the area of automative regulation America is the only developed nation to have increased traffic deaths over the past decade or so. You can go verify that fact.
So when it comes to seeing China implement a basic automative regulation, it is indeed a “must be nice” situation.
The problem with your original statement is that it’s stupid and patronizing
No it seems the problem is you appear to think because there are a few positives, the governments are functional. So I guess it depends on what you mean by functional. You are welcome to disagree, I was just clearing up what I meant. There are people that say at least Hitler made the trains run on time. I wouldn't say functional though.
Would you say that a government is functional if a highly biased university research project spanning 15 years determined that over 95% of people approved of their government, even accounting for the possible ways these numbers could be skewed?
I would not trust any research that states 95% of people agree on almost anything, that's extremely unlikely in any situation ever. Any study saying 95% of people approve of their government of all things sounds like coersion, faking, or simply a culture that fosters saying something regardless of truth. If you asked thousands of people in Russia if they approve of the government, they'll say yes. But they aren't being truthful. I'm betting they didn't interview certain groups as well, as those folks are being killed by the Chinese govt. So yes one study saying one thing is definitely not enough to overcome the hurdles.
You just blindly reject Harvard research because deep down inside you know better, right?
It must actually boggle your mind that people can honestly approve of their government even when that government isn’t doing anything special
Did you know around 80% of republicans support Trump? That’s about the same % of Russians who agree w Putin. You can go look that up.
Your intuitive knowledge is worthless
Yea, I'm sure all those folks in Hong Kong that were rioting approve of their new government overlords. I'm sure the Uyghurs would say they're doing just a fine job. The article even mentions they didn't ask laborers. I don't disagree that they asked those people and they did respond that way. However whether people answer truthfully about their authoritarian government is a completely different thing. So yes, I do question this one single survey done of a small sample size and there's really no way for them to account for everything. How many other peer reviewed studies do you have besides this one?
There are 1.3 billion people in China and you can read the report to see their satisfaction with a variety of metrics from the indifference of local officials to their participation in public health programs, over the past however many years
I hope you understand that even a 5% disapproval rate for something in China is still somewhere near 70 million people. There are only 11 million uyghurs in China. Do you not see how if you add up all the people who approve and disapprove you get the same ballpark numbers the study is claiming?
Just do the math lol
Likewise 30,000 people out of 1.3 billion is not going to be representative. Again do you have any other peer-reviewed studies or are you just basing your entire beliefs of one small sample study?
That’s not how statistics works at all. A sample of 30,000 people out of 1,300,000,000 is in fact highly representative. Please go look up how sample sizes work because there is no way to have a meaningful conversation if you don’t understand basic statistics.
So no other peer reviewed studies then? You're a one article is absolute kind of guy? Good luck out there.
I suppose that makes you a 'doesn't understand statistics and ignores the evidence' kind of guy 🤷♀️
Good luck out there.
There is a large demand for Teslas in China believe it or not. Very possible this is just motivated by trying to favor Chinese automakers more so than out of genuine safety concerns.
Glances nervously at Ford, BMW, VW, Mitsubishi, etc...
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