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Quick post about AI-free FireFox Based Browsers (Keep your Addons and avoid the Bloat) (lemmy.world)
submitted 10 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
118 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Just pick one - All the Fox functionality without bloatware

Librewolf - https://librewolf.net/

Waterfox - https://www.waterfox.com/

Zen Browser - https://zen-browser.app/

More browsers here - https://alternativeto.net/category/browsers/firefox-based/

You can also use this add to disable the shitload ai function in many search engines in one go

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/disable-ai/

GitHub page - https://github.com/jruns/disable-ai

You can find all the links on Mastodon<

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[–] 47 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I was ignoring everything Waterfox back when I realize they were bought by an advertising company, System1, which also owns StartPage.

BUT, I recently read from Wikipedia that Waterfox has gone independent again since 2023.

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  • [–] 34 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    As someone who uses waterfox but hadn't heard any of this news, that was a rollercoaster. But consider me relieved.

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    • [–] 96 points 10 months ago (24 children)

    Really hate how iOS has zero alternatives. Thanks apple for your stupid WebKit.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago*

    I bought an old Pixel 7a with (new) case for less than $179 USD and put Graphene OS on it. Definitely cheaper than buying youself a new iPhone, and installation is easy af.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    Could be worse, seriously. Safari is not a bad browser and WebKit is the only engine since years that can keep up with chromium. I get that it is annoying to have leas freedom on iOS, but I also appreciate the increased security[1] and quality of life that comes with it.

    [1] yes, I am aware that open source software tends to be more secure, as it can be reviewed by all. However, Android by default is way less secure than iOS, unless you use GraphiteOS or similar.

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  • [–] 37 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    I also appreciate the increased security

    This hasn't been true for a long, long time. Mac was only ever more secure than windows because not enough people used them to make them worthwhile attack vectors. Nowadays, iOS sees just as many vulnerabilities as every other popular OS.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Report after report finds iOS to be more secure than Android. Here’s just one example: https://www.rokform.com/blogs/rokform-blog/which-is-more-secure-iphone-or-android

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't really call this a "report" when there aren't any metrics in the reasoning other than price.

    Even in their own article, it mentions how support and updates vary by manufacturer so it's kind of meaningless to compare iPhone to the whole Android ecosystem. You'd need to choose one or more manufacturer in order to make an apples to apples comparison.

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago

    It was just the first one that came to hand. LOL at this source for another example: https://deepstrike.io/blog/Malware-Attacks-and-Infections-2025

    That claims that Android devices are 50 times more likely to be compromised than iOS. Look at most reports from people like Kasperky & Malwarebytes and they don’t even bother to mention iOS in statistics and only occasionally mention the platform if there is a specific notable threat.

    It can be argued that iOS isn’t as secure as Apple would like you to think or as a lot of Apple users do think, but it really can’t be argued that it’s equally as vulnerable as Android

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Without taking a position on the claim itself, this is a bad citation. It makes a variety of claims that either don't hold up to basic scrutiny, or aren't evidence that iOS has a security advantage. Here are some examples:

    Open-source platform increases vulnerability surface area

    This is perhaps one of the most thoroughly debunked pieces of FUD in the entire tech industry.

    [Various claims about inconsistency between devices]

    These are mostly true but largely irrelevant. You're not buying an aggregate of all Android devices that exist, but a specific device with specific traits. The Android phone you should actually buy will have a security chip and many years of updates just like an iPhone.

    The rigorous app review process and mandatory App Store distribution (except in EU) virtually eliminate malicious app threats for average users.

    This might be a benefit when the user has no clue how to use a computer, but I expect people posting in this community are past that stage. It's a big disadvantage for those who want to use something like Firefox (real Firefox, not a skin on Safari) with potential security and privacy upsides.

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  • [+] -6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Again, specific sources are more or less irrelevant, because all sources agree. Plus, the onus isn’t on me to provide a source which debunks the claim that Android and iOS are equal in terms of vulnerability, the onus is on OP to provide a source which supports their assertion.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Depends on whether you want to convince people of your position, or you're just explaining your own choice. The latter is fine, but the former won't happen without better sources.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Nowadays, iOS sees just as many vulnerabilities as every other popular OS.

    I'm no Apple fanboy but Apple security is more than the OS. Since they also produce all of the hardware, it means they can do things at the hardware level and either make available or restrict things to the OS that Windows cannot do because Microsoft doesn't control all the hardware makers.

    I'm posting this in Asahi Linux on an M2 powered Macbook. Its been an interesting experience learning not only the benefits of this as a hardware platform, but also its limitations from the FOSS point of view.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Safari on iOS is especially tolerable since they allowed uBlock Origin Lite onto the App Store recently.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    To be honest I don't use Firefox on android anyways because it's noticeably slower than chromium. Since I'm on graphene is I just stick to vanadium + DNS level adblocking.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    There is actually a current Chromium-based browser for Android with Manifest v2 extension support and uBlock Origin.

    spoilerIt's Microsoft Edge. No, I'm not advocating that you use it.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    There are some good iOS browsers.

    At the moment, I use Orion (from Kagi) and Narrow32. Quiche Browser is good, DuckDuckGo is fine.

    Discoverability on iOS is awful though. The store is just packed with SEO spam and corporate slop on top of all the passion projects or "benevolent" ones.

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    At the moment, iOS doesn’t not allow any other browser engines. Every browser on iOS is just reskinned Safari.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

    That's kind of a blessing in disguise; otherwise basically all web traffic would be Chrome.

    Apparenty this is softening some: https://www.techspot.com/news/108965-japan-gives-apple-december-deadline-drop-ios-browser.html

    And Safari is quite performant on iOS.

    Maybe I'm too cynical, but I wouldn't mind if that continues, just so there's some chunk of traffic that isn't Chrome and that web development doesn't turn into a complete monoculture. A smidge of Firefox and Safari alone isn't enough for that.

    (EDIT: My assumption is that if Apple allows Chrome on iOS, you can bet they are going to funnel basically everyone into it).

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    That traffic only skews the graph like a false positive. While WebKit itself is oss, apple's tendency to just separate itself from the rest of the world makes it largely irrelevant. There are very few alternative browsers based on webkit for other platforms and the expected benefit of developers having to cater to apple's choices are thus negligible for the rest of us.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Still. I don't want to be on an internet where Chrome is basically the only develoment target, and for most sites to work properly you have to be on Google's browser. Safari's mere existance forces at least some generalization, but that disappears if Google pushes most of those users to Chrome anyway.

    That's the internet where Google has even more total control.

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    • [–] 29 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Zen ♥️

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Am I the only one that zen is laggy and buggy for?

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    • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Does librewolf or water fox have a mobile version that syncs tabs to desktop like official Firefox ?

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    All Geckos can sync if Mozilla Sync is enabled with an account. So you can sync say LibreWokf or WarwrFox on desktop to any mobile version, such as IronFoz. They do not have to "match".

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Oh cool, I didn't know that and it was the main fear I had from swapping. I really should have just looked it up by now, but oh well.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    I use Librewolf on my work and personal desktops, then Waterfox on my Android. I prefer Waterfox, but I find the logo so lame looking I settle for Librewolf. The OOTB settings for LW are super strict and a slog to deal with unless disabled. WF feels like using FF in just about every way.

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    • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    As a heads up, Librewolf last I checked had issues with media involving DRM. Ergo, streaming services will throw a fit if you try using them on it. Not an issue if you don't use any of course, and there may be ways around it, but worth knowing that it doesn't work out of the box at least.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    it's in settings > general

    "screenshot of librewolf's play drm-controlled content setting"

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Easier of a solution than I had found when I tried... I remember looking it up basically being told it wasn't possible without a lot of fiddling. Strange. Good to know it's actually simple!

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Actually it should be even simpler because if it's disabled and the site attempts to use it, you'll see a prompt under the toolbar that says you may want to enable it.

    what you said might be about watching streaming sites on linux in general. some of them only give you inferior quality streams, some of them outright refuse to cooperate.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, you have to enable a setting. I think it links you to it when you run into it. Much more of a turn off to me is not being able to use my camera in it, so I have to use a different browser for video calls.

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    • [–] 45 points 10 months ago (1 child)

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    • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    Hell yeah shoutout to alternativeto.net! Fucking great site.

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    [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    Right now the hold up for me is session sharing and password syncing between mobile and Linux.

    Passwords I have a clear path forward, with either offline mgr + manual sync, or self-hosted online. But I it's weirdly hard to walk away from session sharing.

    Edit oh nice, waterfox does all this.

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    [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    I use Floorp on desktop. Since I got used to it, I just can't live without that advanced sidebar. Being able to open the mobile versions of web pages right on the side is just too useful.

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    [+] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    if you install arkenfox yourself, likely you'll never remember to update it. if you use librewolf or such, the maintainers will take care of it for you

    If you use fennec on android, I think you can even just copy your config to your phone and have it working the same there.

    and where do you copy it on your phone? I think it's not that simple but maybe I missed something

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  • [+] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    all data of the firefox is located in /data/data/packgename, which is inaccessible without root permissions. a few android versions ago it was accessible through ADB, not anymore. I don't think it's possible anymore to install arkenfox on plain firefox android for most users.

    even with a rooted phone its not that easy. granting termux root rights and running su, the per-package data folders are not visible, you have to switch to the correct mount namespace somehow. some file manager apps adapted to be able to do that

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    • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Are there any plans to make a mobile browser?

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Also, just wondering if you had any trouble with Google blobs or other privacy / security issues with this browser?

    Looking good so far but can't move my bookmark.html from old browser because I can't find Ironfox's location for it. No biggie.

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    • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (16 children)

    Any recommendations for iOS? I switched to Librewolf on my Linux pc and Fennec on my Android phone, but still have Firefox on my iPad. Looking for good alternatives.

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    All browsers on iPhone are reskinned Safari as far as I'm aware. I don't think it matters much what you pick.

    I could be wrong though.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    ...leave iOS?

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    True, I really hate iOS. I only got this iPad for the Apple Pencil and Procreate. I usually try to keep hardware until it dies, but I may need to dump this iPad for my sanity.

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  • [+] -7 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Yes, add e-waste because of corporate brand loyalty.

    No one cares what you use. If it fucking works for you, keep using it.

    It's exhausting keeping up with all the internet outrage over tedious shit that truly does not matter with the short amount of time we all have on this water covered rock spinning in space.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Where are you getting the corpo loyalty impression from my post? If I stop using the iPad, it’ll go to someone who will use it. And I wouldn’t be dropping it due to internet outrage, I just don’t like iOS at all, from its gesture controls to its locked App Store.

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    its locked App Store.

    I have bad news for you if you are planning to switch to what I think you are...

    Edit: ironically posted this from my Android phone.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    My netizen on the internet, GrapheneOS (what I am currently using), PostmarketOS, and LineageOS are all right over on Android devices - alongside alternate app stores like F-Droid, Accrescent, and anonymous play store front ends like Aurora.

    Let's not spread lies here, m'kay?

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Haven't used iOS in a while, but I remember Orion being really good. It can install chrome extensions and Firefox add-ons.

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    • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I use Fennec in Android and Librewolf in Linux.

    Libre wolf needs a bit of tweaking at the begining but then works like charm.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Tweaking in what sense? Like just default search engines and such, or is it about:config settings?

    I'm just curious.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I had a thing that deleted everything every time I closed the browser... Like it reset i. I activated history and a few other normal stuff... Nothing in about:config.

    Also, in Gnome, I had to activate a permission to access user files in flatseal to work with gnome extensions

    Nothing special.

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    • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Last I used librewolf/waterfox they lagged behind a few days on security updates, so I switched to regular Firefox with arkenfox user.js

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    [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I use Iceraven for my phone

    Here is a github link for the android app https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser

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    • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I'm hopeful that firefox will get better, but I will switch to librewolf if it doesn't https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rkrikorian_youre-not-an-owner-youre-a-renter-thats-activity-7407449623365160960-eBba?rcm=ACoAAAEaOGUBcuQnpyDgX8X3tv2kNPamUFP1d5k

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    [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I use all 3 and generally bounce back and forth between them. They're all good.

    Just pick one and go. They'll get the job done.

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