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[–] 213 points 10 months ago (29 children)

I am deeply pissed that they just keep on attempting. This is costing millions, for nothing. The EU should introduce a forced wait period for declined topics, as this here is the abuse of the democratic system.

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  • [–] 129 points 10 months ago (26 children)

    Agreed - This feels like "we will keep voting on this until we pass it"

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  • [+] -34 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    They will keep proposing solutions until the problem is solved. Notice how everytime its voted down they try a different idea? Thats how its supposed to work.

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  • [+] 37 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    This is the same solution to the problem. By only proposing the same solution over and over it's pretty clear they just want full access to messaging. If it was actually about the children or security or whatever they would be attempting more privacy friendly alternatives

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  • [+] -6 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    Do you have an example of a privacy friendly alternative?

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Lucky for me, it's my role or job to pitch them, and I do not need to pitch them to you. You are more than welcome to read the EFF's writeup on alternatives yourself.

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  • [+] -12 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Wow very helpful. Thanks for advocating for your cause so effectively. Clearly your rhetoric will win the day.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    You're clearly trying to bait me into some argument which is why I have no interest in finding resources to show you. I'm not biting. I get some references, you try to tell me it's bunk or it won't work, I'm just not feeling it today. I don't feel like being trolled or pulled into your anger circle. So, won't respond anymore. Have a pleasant day!

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  • [+] -6 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    I can clarify.

    First I was asking for an example of a better solution, because I'm not aware of one and it would be nice to learn about one.

    The next reply was me being sarcastic because instead of just giving a quick explanation of an idea, you dismissed me and told me to essentially "google it". Since you aren't treating me in good faith, I replied in kind.

    Maybe when you are feeling better you can give this another shot. Have a better day.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Its your responsibility to educate yourself, not societies. You're not asking for help, you're asking for tutoring. The previous commenter answered your question anyway by directing you to the EFF. Its not their fault you dont want to put effort in and go read the work of an organisation whose entire purpose is to answer the question you asked.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    While you're not wrong, it also would have taken them the same amount of time and effort to make a passing suggestion instead of saying "lol no, look it up yourself."

    So yes, it is your own responsibility to educate yourself, but asking the more educated is one way that we do this. And the more educated answering "do your own research" is kind of a dick move.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    What if they said "this book explains what you want to know" and you still dont go and read the book? Cos that's what's happening.

    Google it. Learn to find information yourself. Its pretty cool what information is out there.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    But why would you tell me to read an entire book when all I want is one tidbit of information. One or two words would have been enough, but instead they boasted that they know a lot about the topic and basically said "It's not my job to share information with you."

    It's inane.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Sometimes we need to read books/web pages to understand things. This is a pretty complex subject and while our friend above was asking for a privacy friendly alternative (which in this situation I'm not even sure how you summarise into a few words tbh), the poster answered by saying go read work from the EFF. They're a great resource and great explainers, and they've written extensively on this topic.

    Idk, should everyone be given the answers to everything, or is telling someone how to find the answer not okay? I'm of the opinion its necessary when a topic is difficult.

    Admittedly, they could have said that as well, but I think it was clear the person asking isnt operating in good faith given their response to me. They're a troll.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago
    1. Your source is about Canada. But okay, it can be used as an example, fair enough.
    2. Those are citizen-initiated petitions. It works a bit different in the EU unfortunately
    3. I personally believe that increasing the fee is the best, if you want to destroy democracy. A way better solution to this problem would be to increase the number of signatures needed, or in an EU petition the percentage of yea-sayers.

    Thanks though for the input, I liked it.

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  • [–] 123 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Any "secure system" with a deliberate backdoor (no matter who it's for) is not a secure system.

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  • [–] 32 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    I always think of that scene from the simpsons where smithers and burns walk through 8 layers of security doors with various identification techniques, and then in the final room there's an old screen door hanging off its hinges to the outside.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    and isn't homer sitting inside eating a sandwich?

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Very similar, but not exactly the same episode. That one he was sitting in the core eating a sandwich, but very close :)

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I just realized that he showed up twice! I've seen both gags a hundred times and never put together that he was the same guy!

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  • [–] 123 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    At this point, I am ashamed of Denmark - one of the countries backing this idea (and if i am not misinformed the country who came up with it?). I have lived here for 30+ years and they do many things right, but recently the government has taken too many liberties and given itself way too much power to decide what people can do

    This is also apparent on the opinion polls. The government (currently 3 more or less central parties) and especially the ruling party (theoretically left but sliding fast towards the center), have lost a lot of its backup from the public

    https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/meningsmaalinger

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  • [–] 37 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    I agree completely other than one important detail: while they sell themselves as center left, absolute center, and center right, the Danish government parties are in reality authoritarian right wing parties and have been for at least a decade and a half.

    Especially when it comes to immigration policy and issues of state control/overreach like Chat Control.

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  • [–] -5 points 10 months ago

    You may be right. I am not very deep into DK politics, but to me, it seems like parties have transitioned to picking standing points from throughout the political range, as they see fit, and not have a standard stance depending on what side they are on. This, I feel is a good thing, and even though it appears to gather all parties in the center, it also gives them a wider and more nuanced approach.

    Maybe placing political parties along a line, is no longer a valid approach

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago

    They did come up with this particular iteration, but the whole idea is inherited from previous EU administrations. It has been a long time goal of the EU to implement something like this. Doesn't excuse the Danish premiership though, as they could just as easily have dropped it, especially after the recent rejection, instead of adamantly keep changing the proposition until something sticks.

    Very on par for Mette Frederiksen and her government in Denmark as well: Arrogant and authoritarian, seemingly with no care for the increasingly bad polling of which something like this doesn't help.

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago

    Oh my fucking god holy shit EU, you can have my dick picks, just shut the fuck up about Chat Control already. You don't have to pass any laws. I will email them to you. Just pipe the fuck down already.

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  • [–] 34 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    As EU citizen is there any way I can fight this? I doubt contacting my country's representatives in the EU will help, considering the current political situation they can benefit more from this happening. Law enforcement is already known for abusing surveillance against political opponents, they are going to enjoy this.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago

    Even if it is does not seem very promising, I think it is still important to point out to your representatives once again that their plans do not reflect the will of the people and that it is unacceptable to keep trying to push them through anyway.

    As long as they continue to try, against all reason, to push this plan through without consulting the citizens, the population should express its rejection.

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is not much else we can do other than inform our friends about this important issue and not let our representatives get away with it without protest.

    Email templates and the addresses of representatives in all EU countries can be found here: Fight Chat Control

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  • [–] 60 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Does the EU not have any sort of rule or directive against trying to vote the same thing 12345 times? Heck, IIRC even the US has that one.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago

    If the US has such a rule then it's not effective. Look at how many times the GOP tried to kill the ACA (or at least pass pointless statements denouncing it). It was at least into the 50s. Probably more than that. Instead of trying to pass useful, practical laws, politicians played the same theatrics over and over again.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago

    Authoritarians will always try to capture more control under their bullshit hierarchy, this isn't a trade of liberties for societal safeties, it's trading privacy for oppression.

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  • [+] 56 points 10 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    I think we are too far gone... If you can't do it with all the free weapons you have on hand, how do you think it's going to work in Europe? America and the rest of the world is equally screwed. Maybe some 3rd world countries will be fine as they have greater issues than "some" privacy concerns:)

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Said the American who can't take Trump out.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    People are always trying to off the president. It's literally the most dangerous job in the U.S. That fuck is just really lucky and persists at not rolling a seven

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Stones and glass houses here a little bit mate

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Pretty sure it's poking fun at all the Europeans who say the same thing on here to every American.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Ah thanks for another interpretation. I often suck at this in text, so can I ask what makes you think that? I’m not doubting you, just trying to learn.

    Is it the interrobang?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    It's... More of an art than a science.

    It's just a fairly common thing people say online about Americans. The comment in question says the exact same thing about Europeans AND specifies they're an American. Classic turnabout IMO.

    Of course if you're not terminally online you might just not get the reference

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    They have put down roots in the Brussels bureaucracy. Authoritarian theories are now dominant over democratic ones there. To weed them out, it would be necessary to elect leftist leaders who radically prefer leftist civil servants throughout Europe, which is now farther away from realisation than it has been for decades.

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  • [–] 48 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Wait... How is this a meme? It just seems like a PSA.

    And if it is, why is it worthy of this community?

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    there isn't really anything stating that posts should be memes, the name is a bit misleading because it came from whitepeopletwitter, which people wanted to make more general. Any microblog post is theoretically allowed as long as it follows the rules in the sidebar. This arguably counts as brand promotion/guerilla marketing, although I think the message is divorced enough from the brand to be acceptable.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Fuck that shit, I have news and politics subscriptions for that. There is no worse way to get info or opinions about actually important stuff than microblog.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds like this is not the place for you then.

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  • [+] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Places like the threadiverse only work if people put stuff in the appropriate place. Creating more posts doesn't fix it when people fail to do that.

    I'm not more informed than I was before because I don't trust anything from twatter to be anything other than paid-for propaganda. That doesn't matter if it's an actual meme or joke.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    Any protest for this by our fellow Europeans?

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  • [+] -24 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    The only way to prevent this is to figure out a way to solve the problem of criminals using encrypted services, without it affecting those not committing crimes. If bad solutions keep getting voted down, eventually one that makes sense will be proposed.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    It's so weird that this "logic" is applied to criminals using encryption/encrypted messaging platforms, but not really any other tool used by both criminals and non-criminals. Like, criminals use hammers and bricks to illegally smash windows, and yet there are no governing bodies out there trying to come up with "creative" solutions to regulate hammers and bricks, to create "backdoors" in hammers and bricks that make them ineffectual for doing crime but retain their original functions. Because that's impossible.

    Instead, maybe what we should do is improve society somewhat so that people don't feel compelled to commit crimes. You know, the one thing that's been demonstrated time and time again to actually work.

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  • [+] -9 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Guns are a better example. Thieving tools is another.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Not really, those examples have the same faults as hammers and bricks.

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  • [–] -5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I guess we shouldn't attempt to restrict them then huh.

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