Edit: Oops, it is /r/Tennessee, not /r/ProgressiveHQ

A screenshot of a poster on Reddit /r/ProgressiveHQ trying to post about the election, and a mod removing the post while not really pretending there's a good reason to remove it

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[–] 213 points 11 months ago* (25 children)

Tennessean here who tried to organize on my state/city subreddits. Can confirm this kind of partisan censorship is not new.

A while ago I made a innocuous enough post on my city's sub about a "Release the Epstein Files" billboard that went up and was paid for by our local Mobilize chapter. Within an hour it was the most upvoted post of the past month. Within 2, it was removed without reason and I was blocked and banned permantly

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  • [–] 85 points 11 months ago (23 children)

    That’s Reddit, I was banned from a Pokemon Go subreddit for being against Niantic forcibly leaving their sandbox environment on iOS.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (18 children)

    We need to be careful on Lemmy. Only the fact that the moderators and admins have goodwill are keeping Lemmy from becoming like Reddit. If Lemmy gets big and starts attracting people who want to pay to take over communities, that will stretch the moderator goodwill to the limits.

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  • [–] 54 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    The difference being that Lemmy supports multiple communities with the same name.

    If an instance is allowing their communities to be sold, they can be defederated.

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    As the number of users goes up, it becomes more difficult to enforce that way. Even if many people switch communities, when new ones search for the community by name, the one with the most users will pop up first. And it becomes more and more difficult to justify defederating an instance over a couple of communities if the instance has a ton of big communities.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    It makes me think that maybe "communities" wasn't the way to organize, maybe you subscribe to a topic and see all posts for that topic on all instances.
    But moderation is good, and defederation is too severe a tool to use for moderation. It feels like there is no good solution.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    Ive always liked subscribing to hashtags so you get user led topics. EX: https://piefed.social/tag/peertube

    Ive always thought it would be good to elect mods from the community. Instead of having a mod that is in charge of EVERYTHING in a community, it should have periodic elections (or just a vote of no confidence by a certain % of users, then an election). The ones that vote have to joined the community for X number of days/months/etc... That way it prevents a bit of the brigading. Also if communities are basically dead, it can help revive them.

    Just an idea.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    It might be some sort of vetting to know all your users are real people.

    I've considered setting up a Lemmy/Piefed for my neighborhood, but I've been told I'm unlikely to get the neighborhood off of our very active Facebook.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Which will make the return on investment questionable, especially if the whole thing gets meme'd into the spotlight. And if it doesn't attract more attention, it probably didn't need to be shut down in the first place.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (8 children)

    It doesn't, at all. They don't care.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    It can be used to pressure admins to remove problematic moderators. It can be used to pressure admins of your instance to defederate from other instances with problematic admins. It means mods can't gaslight people about their actions. Obviously it doesn't magically stop bad actions but it gives us a lot of ways to resist it and counter it.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    In theory, yes. I have seen one (1) case of it working, across hundreds of communities.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You've only seen one case of mods not being able to gaslight people? I'm been a little cheeky because it's so much more than getting mods to step down or apologize or shit like that. If they're the problem people can make a new community. If the instance is the problem you can jump ship to a new one. Hell, you can even self host if it comes down to it.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Thats where federation comes in. Don't like how mods are running things? Just set up a mirror forum on a different instance and people will come if theyre sympathetic.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If we ignore the network effect, or the effort it takes, it's a great idea!

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    It's a fair point. Don't discount the power and value that comes from keeping the same platform, APIs, and client software during a community migration away from the censorship. Plus having a clear line delineating the extent of a mod's power to suppress viewpoints likely reduces the incidence of abuse in the first place.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I was banned from Reddit by Reddit for calling out a shill. And then they censored my post and deleted it from my data request so that it was impossible to prove I wasn't inciting violence. That whole place is fucked.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Super curious about the Pokemon Go thing, wasn't able to find anything on Google though. Could you tell what to search or share a link? Thanks <3

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Reddit mostly cleared that up by deleting the posts, and banning the users. They couldn’t risk looking like they did anything wrong, like working alongside a company to check for running apps on iOS, when it’s specifically designed to be sandboxed. Not surprisingly, other users discovered Apple was turning a blind eye to the attempts to check systems memory for hooks.

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  • [–] 81 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    From

    The start page of the internet

    To:

    this tiny little corner on the internet

    Reddit sure has come far

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    At one point it was a glorious place. Then 5 people became admins and mods of the most popular 100 sub reddits and began controlling the narrative to fit their beliefs. In my opinion reddit has been dead for at least 5 years now

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    Way longer than that. The rot was evident during 2015/2016 election cycle. Narrative crafting and political astroturfing for days. The last 5 years or show has just illustrated how unhinged the admins and mods of major subs are

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  • [–] 78 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    What a power-tripping little dick energy cunt. God I fucking hate reddit.

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  • [+] 41 points 11 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 156 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    We MUST Protect Jeffrey Epstein!

    -Republicans!

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  • [–] 69 points 11 months ago

    A person in Tennessee defending pedophiles and abusing power in that pursuit?

    Shocked, shocked I tell you.

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  • [–] 66 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    Wow. Just fucking wow.

    Does Facebook and X do similar types of censoring when it comes to the Republican agenda?

    Or is it somehow easier to install them as mods on Reddit subs, making it appear to be more “grass roots” without blaming the platform itself for censorship and bias?

    I guess of fb you have “groups” (as opposed to subs) where you could install similar “mods.”

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago

    Facebook, Twitter and Reddit all have a history of silencing by shadowbans and most people have no idea. There's a billion different ways to silence you on each of these.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago*

    I think left wing content on Xitter just gets suppressed, not deleted. Since buying a checkmark gets your posts boosted to the top of the algorithm, and right wingers are far more likely to give money to the Nazi bar.

    But, I haven’t used it in a long time, so I could be mistaken. When I gave up on it, I was being shown almost nothing but alt right shit regardless of how many accounts I blocked/muted or what posts I interacted with, though. (And pretty much the only other content I’d get was porn and gore that I didn’t want to see.) And every search would show me a hearty mix of Nazi propaganda and porn, no matter how irrelevant.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Designing an opinion platform with "volunteer" mods is asking for agenda-driven operatives to volunteer.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    X probably does. Facebook seems to be more impartial. Not that it speaks much against Zuck's support for the administration.

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago*

    New study shows just how Facebook's algorithm shapes conservative and liberal bubbles

    The answer seems to be yes. After analyzing popular political news links posted on the platform between September 2020 and February 2021, the researchers found that there's not much overlap between political news consumption within the two camps. Segregation also increases as a news link moves from being selected by the algorithm, to being seen by a user, to being interacted with.

    That ideological gap was larger than what other research has shown for overall news consumption online and in traditional media.

    "This borders on an indictment of Facebook's algorithm," said Laura Edelson, a computer scientist and postdoctoral researcher at NYU. She was not involved with the project but has done similar research and reviewed the studies' findings. (In 2021, Edelson and her team were blocked from accessing Facebook after a clash over the data they were collecting.)

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I assume with X you need to directly manipulate the algorithm to manipulate what appears in feeds. Which means you don’t have this plausible deniability by blaming a third party mod. OTOH it’s more difficult for a user to detect the platform doing algorithm manipulation and call out the platform because it’s just a black box to them.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I would expect Twitter to be a huge conservative circle jerk, but it really is not. I think the fighting between the two sides is good for business. I also would expect TikTok to do so as well, and maybe it will once Ellison takes over, but so far that's the best boots on the ground source for seeing real events happening in real time, even if it conflicts with whatever bullshit narrative is spun out of the event.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Is Oracle really going to host TikTok? That’s been a rumor for like two years now. Even if they do host it on their servers, what kind of administrative or moderation control are they expected to have?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I don't know about hosting - but the deal was being finalized a little over a month ago and it was reported that Oracle would manage the security and algorithm after the purchase of TikTok US. Or at least, they will be licensing the algorithm if they won't own it. The new development I was unaware of is that it won't just be Larry Ellison, but also Rupert Murdoch and Michael Dell. We truly live in hell.

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  • [–] 57 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    Reddit has really gone down the hole and sucks Republican cock hard.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    To which I disagree.

    With all the cases on reddit where it seems that outcome serves republicans - there is a counter-argument of how most major subs are democrat-sided subs. Maybe mods are republicans, but still user base is majority of democrats. r/pics, r/adviceanimals, r/therewasanattempt, r/clevercomebacks, r/facepalm - these were never primarily about politics. And now they are and these are only democrat-sided.

    Or, maybe, it is astroturfing and political bots swarm these subs. Who knows at this point?

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  • [–] 52 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Fuck reddit, and fuck censorship.

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  • [–] 26 points 11 months ago* (6 children)

    Lets be clear though, reddit is only worse than lemmy because it is centralized by one group of douchebags.

    Lemmy has plenty of shitty moderation too, and arguably is worse at dealing with it within any given instance due to the lack of proper mod tools, the way posts that are deleted remove entire comment sections from being accessible, the lack of any appeals system and I'm sure a few other things I don't remember off the top of my head.

    Its a people problem, and its a style of organization problem with this style of forum.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I agree. Lemmy has a ton of awful moderators that abuse their power just to support "their" viewpoint.

    Lemmy is better though because it at least has the potential for people to have better moderation, as well as a modlog that keeps mods somewhat accountable and let's people see what is being censored.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    as well as a modlog that keeps mods somewhat accountable and let’s people see what is being censored.

    I'm not sure if this is still true, but you can get around that though if you ban the person before removing the comment. Also, some communities have a delay on showing what's been removed.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    I agree. Lemmy has a ton of awful moderators that abuse their power just to support “their” viewpoint.

    Indeed. Famously the elephant in the room of the ml instance where they're gone so far off the deep end on a lot of topics that they end up in essence supporting extremist conservative views/human rights abuses and worse. This is either with direct support with the weird straight up dictatorship praises many sing, being so toxic and hard to talk to that they push people away (who I hope know they certainly aren't the average left leaning person) or the awful thing many do where they feel any incremental positive change is bad, and the only good change is a magic overnight revolution and shift to 100% exactly their view of how society should work, that they'll also never spell out.

    Lemmy is better though because it at least has the potential for people to have better moderation

    In some ways yes, in some ways the opposite (as mentioned with the lack of tools).

    Regarding the modlog, maybe I am missing something, but when things are deleted here, its actually a little bit worse than reddit sometimes in that you won't be able to immediately see the content that was deleted of yours, and then for mod logs, I believe (As I am not 100% sure) that comment removals disappear when the user who made the comment is banned as well, so its kinda false transparency.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    reddit is only worse than lemmy because it is centralized by one group of douchebags

    That's a really big distinguishing factor though. When a group gets "too big to fail," it becomes a problem by giving said group too much control. Look at the genocide apologist mods on /r/worldnews .

    The de-centralization / fragmentation of Lemmy is an important check against bad moderation.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    You absolutely bring up good points yes, but at the same time, I don't think its a check, so much as a mild mitigation. Even on the lemmy verse there are still mega subs that take on the most activity and gain similar types of "too big to fail" critical user bases.

    The core problem, is that when a group gains disproportionate control over what users can see, they can push their views/twist arms, and that ultimately isn't solved here.

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  • [–] 50 points 11 months ago (24 children)

    Can't except much better from a reddit mod team.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    TBF the Reddit mods who do a good job never get talked about. I've seen very reasonable mod teams

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Why would you bother talking about them, I suppose. Bitching about dickheads - fun, wow, everyone loves a moan. Complimenting the capable? Dull, flat, uninteresting

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    That is basically the same reason that conservatives have been able to sell the lie that government programs are inefficient compared to the dictatorship of corporations. You don't hear anything about the vast majority of government programs, because they work. You only hear about the ones that got corruption and greed mixed in, because those can be called wasteful. In reality most government programs are far more efficient than any corporation could hope to be.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Particularly egregious because any private replacement of a govt program is inherently a monopoly and therefore, by economic rules, almost certain to be wasteful and shite. And outcome metrics are financial rather than intentional. Yeah but ok let's not go down this hole, we all know where we stand.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    Lemmy isnt Better, all the mod rejects from Reddit are mods on Lemmy and are using any tiny speck of power to do what Reddit mods would do

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Thing is tho, you own r/bastard mods, you own it entirely

    You own c/bastardmods.lemmy.bastard, people move to c/bastardmods.lemmy.fuckyou

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    It kinda fucks with me when mindlessly scrolling and being like "didn't I see this exact post not 10b seconds ago?". Then realizing it's a separate instance.

    Edit to clarify.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah volunteer mods almost always act like fief lords on any platform.

    The type of person that would volunteer is precisely the type of person who shouldn't be a mod, usually.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    You see the same effect in person, too, with HOAs being the most notorious example. But there are many volunteer-based organizations that do incredible good work. Power tripping is a thing to watch out for and build guardrails against, but thankfully it's not universal.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    My very first Lemmy post was in what is essentially the only Lemmy comics group, and it got removed because it contained "profanity".

    I was trying to post original content directly to Lemmy, which is something no one ever does. But it got removed, so fuck it, I posted it to reddit. Two hours later, it was on the front page of reddit. So not to toot my own horn, but I think that's a sign that it was pretty fucking premium OC, the kind of content that a Lemmy mod should want in their community.

    I've since seen it reposted all over the internet, and it's hit the reddit front page several more times.

    The profanity in question: "balls".

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I once got into a debate on a left wing community about the methods to outsmart conservatives. The guy wasn’t agreeing with me, at one point I said “doing the same thing is just lunacy” I was removed and banned for “ableism” That’s the best the mod could come up with to silence my opinion.

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  • [–] 49 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    If I recall a similar thing happened to the San Antonio subreddit. Something like it was taken over during the mod revolt, and the new mods seem to have very specific interests.

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  • [–] 32 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The /r/canada sub has long been controlled by far right people as well. There's been an effort to seize control of city / state / country subs.

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  • [–] 49 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The mod of a fascist sub about a fascist state of a fascist country on a fascist website is behaving like fascist? I’m shocked.

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