Google has announced it is building a new way for 'experienced users' to install Android apps that haven't been verified.

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[–] 91 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

This isn't -bad- news, but I'm still not impressed. They could have just, you know, not done it in the first place. They don't get credit for partially walking back a bad decision. The "advanced flow" is more likely a dark pattern, and will still have a chilling effect on FOSS uptake and distribution, which is still the intended purpose of the change.

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  • [–] 34 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Still going to give Linux phones a shot now that the cats out of the bag.

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Reminds me of manifest v3

    They just delayed it until people got bored being mad

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Building a new way does not adequately means giving up on developer verification. In the last paragraph, Google is also promoting the verification for non-GPlay developers.

    Out of all possibilities in this universe, there may be a chance that these new flows include user verification instead of developer.

    There should also be a rule to rephrase "sideloading" as "installing from non-Google-approved sources" at this point.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    As much as sideloading is a strange term, it is one that most people understand. If someone were to search for information about this specific topic, they would search for "sideloading", not whatever alternative we come up with, regardless of how "accurate" it is

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    IIRC, the term predates Android, and was originally coined to refer to installing non-apple applications on the original iPhone. At the time, this could only be done via cable. So, as distinct from "downloading" from the app store to the device, it does make a certain kind of sense. It's been accepted into the vernacular with a slightly warped meaning, but that's language for you.

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn't verified. We are designing this flow specifically to resist coercion, ensuring that users aren't tricked into bypassing these safety checks while under pressure from a scammer. It will also include clear warnings to ensure users fully understand the risks involved, but ultimately, it puts the choice in their hands. We are gathering early feedback on the design of this feature now and will share more details in the coming months.

    Amazing, so basically what everyone said: Put all the big red scary warnings you want but don't make it impossible.
    Look how much pushback was needed to reach this obvious common sense solution. Truly incredible.
    Thanks for nothing Google πŸ‘

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago

    Sorry, I'm seeing someone else.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Couldn't handle the blowback, eh? I doubt this will convince the townsfolk to put down the pitchforks. Might need more walk back.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    too late. eat shit and go fuck yourself, Google.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    You say eat shit, like you think talking shit is a kind implication you're totally not-saying something of purpose and consequence.

    There is no difference between Algorithms and "Digital Mushrooms." They will eat the dead just as much as they eat the living.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

    a fairphone with murena /e/os is looking pretty good right about now, or maybe whatever grapheneos is cooking up.

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  • Have one (Fairphone with E/OS) and tbh, I really enjoy not dealing with googles shenanigans and straight up malware practices. I did not take kindly to one morning them telling me they removed a "dangerous" app. Mind you, it was a work phone and NFC debugging app from our own institute, costing my employer my lost time on it. Extra bonus for remotely installing and executing unwanted services that reduce battery life by 75%.

    With that level of interference, I wonder about the legal implications? "Someone torrented shrek from that phone?" Or even "Device was used as part of a malicious DDoS op?" Must've been some intern/intelligence agent at google, I don't control the device after all." seems like a legitimate defense/claim. Well, as long as the rule of law exists in some way. But if that goes away, then it doesn't matter really. At that point you need guns and combat drones, not phones.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Mort and Baileys tactics

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    This will buy everybody more time to make/refine/try out normal non-google options, before they inevitably kill it permanently in a few years.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    They are not easing up anything. They said there will be small scale testing still possible already. What we need is to say Yes, I want to enable Unknown sources install like we did until now.

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  • 5 comments in c/android@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    So they're addressing students and private hobbyists, but not open source and hobbyists willing to publish.

    Sounds like it will be a kind of sideloading onto your own devices.

    that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn't verified

    So for F-Droid, a vetting and curating publisher, users will have to go through this expert process. The announcement that activation under pressure will be prevented makes me thing of a time cooldown, like activate now, and it becomes active by tomorrow, 24 hours later.

    Scamming is a real problem, and to a degree, it may end up being a good thing. As long as Google does not take this opportunity to push hidden agenda of increasing accessibility and choice, to seize more control not for security but as market and platform strategy.

    F-Droid says they don't want to impersonate other projects in order to be able to publish their projects, arguably decreasing security, which is a valid concern. As long as there's a setting to allow this kind of sideloading and the use of F-Droid like before, I guess it is what it is, and may be acceptable.

    If only they had started from where they are now. It's plainly obvious there's these kinds of users and use-cases. Did they really need "the community feedback" to learn about everything outside of their primary "linear" users?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    We are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn't verified.

    Isn't this what we wanted?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Impossible to say until we see it, but if they're willing to do this then why bother doing any of it? Scammers will easily walk the clueless through whatever steps Google sets up.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    In my interpretation, the gains will be

    1. Google Store apps will have identities linked, making it harder to mass-produce and mass-publish scam apps
    2. Enabling app installs outside of the Google store will have an additional barrier to combat scammers interactive pressure, maybe a cooldown of 24 hours or something like that
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